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Topic: Poppery vs drum? (35 msgs / 1459 lines)
1) From: Spencer W. Thomas
This morning I did my typical "Oh, no! I'm out of coffee!" thing at 
6:30.  I roast in a slightly modified Poppery (I) -- the switch just 
turns the heat on and off.  I've been trying to "profile" by watching my 
dial thermometer and flipping the switch on and off to add in "steps" at 
250F and 350F.  I took the beans (Kenya Kiawamururu) to "just before" 
2nd crack -- 425 on my slightly flaky thermometer. Well, it must have 
worked well this morning, because the cup I dripped after a rest of 
fully 5 minutes was smooth with no "grassy" or "smoky" flavors.  (I am 
also using the trick of preheating the water before dumping it into the 
coffee maker -- that definitely reduces these off-flavors, too.)
=Spencer
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2) From: EuropaChris
Yes, a slower hot air roast is better, but still not drum class.  I only prefer drum roast for espresso, however.  I really like air roasts for vac pot brew.
I control my Poppery II to give me 6:30 to first crack, and start of second around 8:00.  This is the natural profile of my Popcorn Pumpers (1400 watt cast alu. models with 0.8 amp motor), and my Poppery Mk.I's tend to vary according to how the internal thermostats are set.  I have one well-used Poppery that rocks to second crack in about 5 minutes.  I think the fan motor is a bit weak giving less air and more temp.
Chris
"Spencer W. Thomas"  wrote:
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3) From: Rich Adams

4) From: EuropaChris
I've added a heater controller so I can vary the heat from 0 to 100% independant of the fan.
Here:http://www.execpc.com/~n9zes/homeroast/roast.html"Rich Adams"  wrote:
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5) From: floyd burton
Chris am in the "pre planning" stage of maybe building a gas Weber Grill
based coffee roaster.  Would there be any advantage to making the drum from
a fairly heavy SS pipe instead of the SS trash can most are using.  Seem to
remember during the trip to Intelligentsia one of the roasting guys saying
they really liked the Hothows cause they had heavy cast drums.  If there is
any advantage I guess it would be temp stability.
Your thoughts please.  Am thinking about getting some 8" diameter SS tubing,
1/4" wall and drilling holes in it to use as a  roaster drum-lots of
time/bits.

6) From: EuropaChris
Well, Floyd, here's what I think:
1) Stainless steel is a lousy heat conductor.
2) Stainless steel is a lousy heat holder.
3) Stainless steel is an absolute bugger to drill.
IHMO, if you try to drill enough holes in a thickwall SS pipe to make a roasting drum, you either have the patience of a Saint, or you are totally masochistic.
If you want SS, get it laser cut, rolled, and welded.  Shoot, just get some regular .083 wall (14ga.) hot rolled steel sheet, find a local machine shop/metal fabricator (like we don't have a million of them around here) with a laser cutter, and have him zap the holes, roll it, and weld it.  He'll likely even have the steel sitting there and do the job for a case of beer (if you're friendly).  Put some caps on the ends and there you go.
Anyone looked in McMaster-Carr for pre-perfed sheet that could be used???
Chris
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7) From: Ed Needham
I think you'll be totally shocked at how much that little piece of SS pipe
will cost you.  If you look at the pics of my unfinished air roaster on my
web site, you will see a 6" dia SS heat tube, about 14 " long and about an
1/8" wall thickness.  Just the cost of the SS tube was $125.  To have it cut
to size, plasma cut to fit around the burner casing, and to have four SS
angles welded onto the bottom was $235.  Talk about sticker shock...
I think the $15 trash can solution works just fine.  Barry Jarrett is making
a roaster and using a non-perfed brass drum.  I'm sure he won't be using lead
based brass though.  Brass might be a bit cheaper, and I think it is used in
many commercial roasters.
Oh...BTW...I hope you have LOTS of time and money, as well as a large supply
of drill bits if you plan to drill more than a few holes in that 1/4" SS.
Trust me on that one. Food grade stainless is a bugger to work.
Ed Needhamhttp://www.homeroaster.comed
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8) From: Ed Needham
I've looked.  It'll take quite a few cases of beer to buy perfed stainless.
I found a Stainless shop that fabricates equipment for restaurant kitchens,
and they were very kind to sell me a small piece of perfed stainless.  I got
a 1' x 2' (appx.) sheet for just over $20.  I thought it was a steal after
seeing the prices of actually ordering the stuff.  I also went away with as
much SS scrap as I could carry for free.  Nice guy.  I'm hoping to find a
reason to go back and possibly raid their scrap bin again .
Ed Needhamhttp://www.homeroaster.comed
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9) From: Oaxaca Charlie
 I've been roasting for a few years now in a basket/drum made
from stainless mesh. It had to be bent into a perfect tube shape
by a machinest. That cost more than the mesh. The ends are
stainless plate that I perferated, going through a few drill
bits and some boring hours of drilling.One end has a hinged door
for filling and emptying. Works great. A few tons of beans
roasted in it so far and no sign of ever wearing out.  Finding
perferated stainless like that was very lucky, good going!
Charlie
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10) From: David Westebbe
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Charlie - 
Do you have any pictures?  That sounds awesome!
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11) From: Oaxaca Charlie
--- David Westebbe  wrote:
<Snip>
 Well, I have a picture or two of the basket, and one of the
roller assembly it sits and spins on in my brick oven, but I
don't know how to put them on the 'net the way folks do-I could
email you a jpg file if you want. I've done that before. I just
got a new roller system with an actual electric motor to turn
it. What freedom after 4 years of turning a crank by hand! A new
basket is in the works, with better agitators and more bean
capacity (6 lbs instead of 4). The roast quality is so good that
I've been able to go from being a full-time farmer and hobby
roaster, to full-time roaster and hobby farmer-yippie! I love
coffee.
Charlie
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12) From: jim gundlach
Floyd,
     My first reaction is 1/4 inch is much heavier than necessary and it 
could make the system difficult to work with.  That much metal will 
hold a lot of heat which will make the shift to cooling difficult.
     Jim Gundlach
On Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 03:49 PM, floyd burton wrote:
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13) From: jim gundlach
I looked and decided to go with brass because I'm cheap.  Very pleased 
with how well it worked.
      Jim Gundlach
On Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 04:00 PM, Chris Beck wrote:
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14) From: floyd burton
The Lowe's trash can is looking much better all the time.  Several of the
big box stores have the 3 burner Weber's around here and I think they are
going to have healthy cuts in prices after Xmas.
thanks for your input.

15) From: floyd burton
Jim-what size brass tube (I assume u used a tube) and what thickness.  Any
suggestions as to hole size-be a bear to drill them too big.
thanks

16) From: Ed Needham
Send them to me with a bit of text, and I'll put it on my web site next to
several other home built/modified air and drum roasters.
Ed Needhamhttp://www.homeroaster.comed
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17) From: Ed Needham
I think I'd have to say the Lowe's trash can might not be as good for
roasting as reported.  I found one the other day and measured the square
perforations.  They were exactly 3/16" and larger than the square
perforations (5/32") in my BBQ Grill drum roaster, which are too big.  I can
only roast the larger size beans with my drum roaster.  Yemen's or peaberry,
and even Sumatra (odd size) beans will fall right through.  Even with the
larger beans, I almost always get a dozen or so stuck in the perforations
after roasting.
I think we need a better solution.
Ed Needhamhttp://www.homeroaster.comed
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18) From: John Abbott
Thanks Ed, I thought that might be the case from the photo.  There has to be
something out there that is preformed that we can use though. Just need to
look harder I guess.

19) From: Marchiori, Alan
I've been using the Lowes can for 2 weeks now, i've done maybe 6-8 roasts.
Very few beans fall through or get stuck in the holes.  I would guess maybe
1-2 dozen beans are lost per roast.  I have been doing 3/4lb roasts and with
this batch size I don't see the loss as a big deal.  Plus sometimes they
fall through the bottom of my grill onto the ground, then I can pick it up
and inspect how the roast is going.  
With this said, when I get some spare time I plan on wrapping some thin wire
through the openings.  There are 2 reasons: 1 make the openings slightly
smaller to avoid loss.  2 (most importantly) keep the beans from sliding
along the inside of the can.  
Alan...

20) From: steve_w
I haven't seriously delved into the idea of a BBQ roaster but why not
fashion something out of stainless steel mesh?  I have seen a kitchen
tool holder in stores recently that was basically a cylinder
of about the right dimensions for a BBQ roaster, except that it was
made of chrome plated rods with 1"+ plus openings in it.  It occured to
me when I saw it that if I lined it with the right mesh it would probably
work.
Steve Wall
Quoting John Abbott :
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21) From: jim gundlach
Floyd,
      I ordered 1 foot of McMaster-Carr's  item # 9360T27 which is the a 
24" inch wide piece of perforated brass sheet metal.  They sent me 
almost three feet, it was probably a remainder.  The price was $12.49 
plus shipping.  I formed it into a cylinder and used metal screws to 
hold it together.  I used 6" stove pipe caps to make the end pieces.
       Jim Gundlach
On Wednesday, December 18, 2002, at 11:19 PM, floyd burton wrote:
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22) From: Ben Treichel
I would be concerned that the chrome would burn off, and cause problems.
However, I've been wondering about a mesh drum myself.
Ben
steve_w wrote:
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23) From: jim gundlach
Charlie wrote:
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The happiest people make a living at their hobby.
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24) From: Ed Needham
Maybe it's because there are fewer holes in the Lowe's can.  I was really
surprised that the holes were so big.
 As to plugging the holes a bit with wire and increasing tumbling at the same
time, that sounds like a good idea.  Maybe there is a little stainless, ready
made doo-dad push clip that can be bought at Lowe's or Home Depot to fit in
the holes.  I'm going to keep my eyes open for that and possibly use them
myself.
Ed Needhamhttp://www.homeroaster.comed
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25) From: Ed Needham
Sounds like a workable design Jim.  The brass would definitely be easier to
work than stainless, and much cheaper too.
Ed Needhamhttp://www.homeroaster.comed
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26) From: Marchiori, Alan
I already bought some thin steel wire.  I plan to use the top most and
bottom most holes.  Start at the bottom then bring the wire up inside the
can to the top hole.  This should cover all the holes in that vertical
colum.  Back out of the can on top over to the next column, back inside the
can, and back to the bottom.  Repeat, etc, until all columns are partially
blocked by the wire.  Also the wire will be run inside every 1/2 inch or so
thus keeping the beans from sliding. (i hope).  Now that I think about it,
it might be better to drill a small hole just for the wire  centered along
each vertical column of squares at the top and bottom, this will keep the
wire from being pushed off to one side of the opening.  yeah I like that
idea.  But it will require some drilling, but it's pretty thin SS.
I won't get to this until after chirstmas, but if it works i'll post more
details.
Alan...

27) From: Oaxaca Charlie
--- Ben Treichel  wrote:
<Snip>
 Stainless steel mesh, about 1/4" mesh is so strong it doesn't
need a frame.With end plates it would take tons of pressure to
dent it. Nothing seems to have burnt off of mine even though I 
exposed it to over 1,000 degree temps for a while just to make
sure it would be clean before doing the first roasts. It cools
down very fast for refilling and there's less worry about the
dynamics of heat from the drum itself when roasting. All the
chaff falls out while roasting, too, and you can watch the beans
change color. Probably best not to have direct flame under it
unless the rpms are pretty high and agitaters working to really
stir the beans constantly.
Charlie
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28) From: Oaxaca Charlie
 I'm using some stainless wire to keep beans from falling out of
a few spots where the stainless mesh didn't weld quite flush to
the end plates, and it prevents beans from falling out, but a
few do get caught in the wire and burn. Usually small or broken
ones,  minimal waste, really, just have to poke them out between
roasts. I guess my mess size has smaller gaps than 3/4 " because
the only beans I can't roast are some Yemens and Maui Moka. I'd
like to find some fine mess stainless for a slieve for roasting
Yemens.
Charlie
--- "Marchiori, Alan"  wrote:
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29) From: Ben Treichel
Oaxaca Charlie wrote:
<Snip>
I wouldn't expect anything to burn off of the mesh, but chrome is 
plating and I would not expect it to do well.
I also agree with you that I wouldn't expect a frame to be required when 
using SS mesh.
<Snip>

30) From: floyd burton
Thanks much-am going to hit the local scrap yards and look for either brass
or cast iron pipe-looks like the Weber Genesis B/C-they have three
longitudinal burners-will accomodate a 8" diameter max pipe.
Thanks much for your response.

31) From: Jim Brockman
In my opinion, the Stainless steel trash cans are light
weight and allow the bbq motor to turn easily. I'm finding a
higher speed of rotation is very important for even
roasting.  The trash cans are also cheap, $15, and any trip
to a steel fabricator is going to be very costly.  Jim
Brockman in Florida
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32) From: floyd burton
Concur that light weight is important-doubt if the rotissery units in the
weber units will accomodate much more than 20#-gotta check though.  ALso
taking a heavy drum in and out while hotttt might not be too cool.  Sounds
like the SS mesh might be a good option. Will check on my nearest Lowe's for
a look at the trash can.

33) From: Ed Needham
The stainless material in the Lowe's can should be fairly easy to drill.
That sounds like a good idea.  And if it helps the beans agitate, that will
be a plus.
Ed Needhamhttp://www.homeroaster.comed
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34) From: john kangas
If you're needing wire to do this, MIG welding wire would be easy to turn up 
at a local welding shop, in varied diameters. A cheaper route might be the 
crab trap wire I've seen in the Alaskan Copper catalog, the price isn't 
listed, but it should be less, since it doesn't need to be as precise or 
clean.
John
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35) From: susan oppenheim
LIVE YOUR BLISS!!!
SOUNDS GOOD TO ME
WELCOME BACK CHARLIE
EVERYBODY MISSED YOU
jim gundlach wrote:
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