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Topic: Double roasts (was First brew of 2003) (16 msgs / 458 lines)
1) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 19:35 1/1/03, Ed Needham typed:
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I seem to have noticed a pattern of some sort here. Virtually everyone who 
has double roasted (myself included) has found the resulting roast to be 
outstanding.  I can't say it is something I would want to do every day, but 
it could be  a "valid" way to roast for an extra nice cup.  I am curious 
why it is more flavorful.  I would assume the chemical reactions are taking 
different branches.  Interesting.
Talk about extra variables... first roast under X profile, wait Y time, 2nd 
roast under Z profile...maybe just too much.
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Roasting and Blending by Gestalt
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2) From: Dan Bollinger
Trigonolene (sp?) is the major bitterness component of coffee.  It is slowly
degraded with heat over time.  A double roast would mean more of the
trigonolene was breaking down, leaving a more mellow cup. What the double
roast would do to the other flavor constituents I don't know.  Dan
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Kenya
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but
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taking
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2nd
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3) From: Ed Needham
Interesting theory Dan.
By the way.  Concerning your paint motor.  It works perfectly with up to two
pounds, but when I tried it with a 5 pound load in my newest BBQ grill
roaster, it pooped out.  Wouldn't turn it at all.  I reduced the load to 2
1/2 pounds and had to hand turn the handle end up to first crack before it
took over and strainingly finished the roast.
In retrospect, I should have known that turning five pounds in a drum, where
the stirring vanes loft coffee almost to the top would be too much for a
small motor.  Now looking feverishly for a relatively good deal on a much
larger gear motor (read 'pig roast motor') so I won't have to be wondering if
it's going to stop.  You BBQ fiends---any great BBQ sites you've dealt with
that might have what I'm looking for?  I hate to order 'cold' from a site
I've never heard of.
The 2 1/2 pound batch finished in 19:15.  Another mystery as to why the
smaller 1 pound drum was taking up to 22 minutes using even higher
temperatures???  I think agitation and speed of rotation is at least part of
the reason.
More to come on this roaster after I catch up on chores I've put off
finishing this roaster project.
Ed Needhamhttp://www.homeroaster.comed
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4) From: Ken Mary
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My experience with "double roasting" has been limited to rescuing underdone
roasts. In all cases, the results were drinkable, some were good, but none
were as good as a single roast. IMO a proper single roast with a profile
suited to the bean will be better than "double roasting" of any kind. But
always ready to prove myself wrong, I will be trying a few "doubles" in the
next several days.
--
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5) From: floyd burton
Ed-checked the Granger catalog for potential roaster motors and they have
some that would work but the price is a bit staggering.  Might be cheaper to
jury rig a 1/2" very slow variable speed drill for this task.  Any way to
lube the contact points-maybe consider a pillow block type bearing.  There
are high temp greases for disk brakes that might work.

6) From: jim gundlach
On Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 11:25 AM, Ed Needham wrote:
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I think this may have something to do with where a newly heated bean 
transfers heat to its surroundings.  If there are relatively few beans, 
most of it gets transferred to the surrounding air, if there are more 
beans it is more likely to transfer the heat to an adjacent bean 
helping it along the roasting path.  I see a similar pattern in wok 
roasting times.
Jim Gundlach
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7) From: dewardh
Ed:
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larger gear motor
Best source I know for such things (apart from local "surplus" outlets) is 
"Surplus Center, 1015 West "O" St. *PO Box 82209* Lincoln, NE 668501-2209", 
402-474-4055, no on-line presence.  Call for a catalog.
They always have a wide range of AC and DC Gearmotors. The ubiquitous "Bodine" 
motor is represented in the current flyer by a 28 RPM 44 in.lb. (lb!) unit with 
sealed motor, sealed gearbox, ball bearings and a 5/8 output shaft (for $39.95, 
but this is 18 lbs. of can't-break-it-with-a-sledge-hammer rugged reliability). 
 It *may* be more than you want  . . . but you'd worry more about the 
coupler failing than anything in the motor or gearbox .  They've got lots of 
other, smaller, gearmotors if you'd settle for less . . . (and some bigger 
ones, too . . .).
Deward
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8) From: Oaxaca Charlie
--- floyd burton  wrote:
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 Just in case contact point friction is a factor-I've tried many
"high temp" lubes and none worked for long when exposed to
roasting temps. Graphite (sp.?)cut to fit a pillow block bearing
works perfectly now on the hot end of my roller asembly. Aused
Stanly garage door motor turns a heavy load without straining. A
cream seperater motor has lots of power, too. Electric drill was
frequently suggested to me but I never tried it.
Charlie
  
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9) From: floyd burton
FWIW-just called them and they are about out of catalogs till end of this
month-if u want one call soon.

10) From: Dan Bollinger
Ed, that's good to know.  The motors had no numbers on them, no amp or
torque amounts.  I guess it is safe to assume they can handle a one pound
roast indefinitely?  Dan
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two
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where
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if
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with
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of
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double
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11) From: Dan Bollinger
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"Bodine"
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For an 8" diameter drum that gearmotor would spin 11 pounds of coffee.  For
a 12" drum it would spin about 7 pounds.  :)  Dan
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12) From: Ed Needham
I had no problem at all with a one pound batch using my smaller drum roaster.
It did OK with a two pound batch also, but it was on the edge.  A 2 1/2 pound
batch was too much for it.  A smaller diameter drum might allow a larger
roast, since the torque required to turn it would be less.  I'm using the
larger of the two Frontgate cylinders which is 9 3/4" diameter, and 1 1/2"
stirring vanes (which I tapered by the advice of AlChemist John-thanks BTW).
The stirring vanes really increase the amount of twist needed to turn the
drum.  I was really surprised at how much effort it took as I tried to turn
it holding it in my hands.   The rising/falling beans affected the rotational
inertia enough so that it would not spin freely as I held it.
Ed Needhamhttp://www.homeroaster.comed
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13) From: Ed Needham
I have a tendency to agree with you Ken.  I have no explanation as to why
this Kenya turned out so good when it wasn't supposed to.  I was just trying
to be cheap and rescue a pound that was destined for the garbage.  Surprise.
Ed Needhamhttp://www.homeroaster.comed
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14) From: Marchiori, Alan
can you elaborate on your vane design?
you can see a tiny bit of what looks like a good set of vanes in this
picture:http://bloggle.com/coffee/inside-b.jpgbut a pic without beans would be better, or a good description.
Thanks,
Alan...

15) From: Ed Needham
It's not the pressure points.  Tried greasing them.  Have not tried bearings,
but I really don't think it'll make that much difference.  The spit turns
almost as easily when resting on the two contact points as it does in my
hands.  It's the physics of turning a mass of moving beans, and the stirring
vanes that disrupt the rotational flow.  It's a bugger to turn with a 5 pound
load.
Grainger motors will be $130 or more for what I could use (1/8HP, 30RPM or
more, continuous duty).  I think I can do better than that, but if not, I'll
bite the bullet and get one.  I don't want to have to worry about the motor
as it struggles to turn my beans.
Ed Needhamhttp://www.homeroaster.comed
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16) From: Ed Needham
I have four vanes, each is about 1 1/2" tall, and they extend across the
length of the drum.  Two of the vanes are tapered from 1" to 1 1/2" and are
reversed, one tapering one way, and the other tapered the other way.  It
seems to work really well.
Ed Needhamhttp://www.homeroaster.comed
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