HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Caffeine (38 msgs / 770 lines)
1) From: Glen Sutherland
Bloomberg News
Aug 30 2000 4:16PM
Caffeine Gene Found; High-Flavor, Low-Jolt Java Seen
London, Aug. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Scientists have discovered the gene that
produces caffeine in coffee and tea, suggesting that plants could be altered
to grow decaffeinated beans and leaves without sacrificing flavor.
Current industrial processes to eliminate caffeine from coffee and tea also
remove some of the taste. The discovery by researchers from Japan and
Scotland suggests the possibility of decaffeinated beverages that can't be
distinguished from the high- test variety.
``The cloning of the caffeine synthase gene is an important advance toward
the development of transgenic caffeine-deficient (coffee and tea) plants,''
the researchers from wrote in tomorrow's edition of the journal Nature.
No plants have yet been grown without the gene, though the researchers said
that the production of such plants was a reasonable goal.
Caffeine, best known as a stimulant, has also been liked to stomach
problems, high blood pressure and anxiety
Peace,
Glen
ICQ 34239611
P3 700 @ 933mhz
Guillemot GF2 @ 245/375
Abit BX6 r2 1.8 volts

2) From: Don Staricka
Very interesting. I'd try it. But I doubt that any of our sources would
take advantage of it. Genetic engineering is politically treacherous.
On another note, I just noticed some caffeinated Altoid mints at the
grocery store the other day. Maybe we can figure out a way to alter the
genetic structure of mint plants to produce caffeine so that Altoids can be
naturally caffeinated. :-)
Don
At 05:50 PM 8/30/00 -0400, you wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: Bryce Decker
Message text written by INTERNET:homeroast
<Snip>
London, Aug. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Scientists have discovered the gene that
produces caffeine in coffee and tea, suggesting that plants could be
altered
to grow decaffeinated beans and leaves without sacrificing flavor.
Current industrial processes to eliminate caffeine from coffee and tea also
remove some of the taste. The discovery by researchers from Japan and
Scotland suggests the possibility of decaffeinated beverages that can't be
distinguished from the high- test variety.
``The cloning of the caffeine synthase gene is an important advance toward
the development of transgenic caffeine-deficient (coffee and tea) plants,''
the researchers from wrote in tomorrow's edition of the journal Nature.
<
Hi all,
        The researchers in Scotland and Japan would be duplicating work
already done 
at the University of Hawaii, where genetically engineered caffiene-free
coffee plants are already being propagated.
The researcher in charge is John Stiles.  One news report:
       http://home.intekom.com/tm_info/rw80205.htm#Genetically

4) From: Spencer W. Thomas
Well, Bryce, if you read the story that you linked to in detail, you'll find
that the two teams isolated two different genes.
The Hawaii team isolated and disabled a gene that "catalyzes the critical first
step in caffeine production."  While the new team found the gene for caffeine
synthase, which "is an enzyme that catalyses the final two steps in the
caffeine biosynthesis pathway."
So from a scientific viewpoint, at least, these are two different results.  The
end effect for the coffee drinker may be the same, but that remains to be seen.
It does sound like the Hawaii team may be further along in actually applying
their results.
The Nature article may be found athttp://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/dynapage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v406/n6799/index.htmlSearch the page for the word "caffeine."
=Spencer
Bryce Decker wrote:
<Snip>

5) From: Bryce Decker
Message text written by INTERNET:homeroast
<Snip>
Well, Bryce, if you read the story that you linked to in detail, you'll
find
that the two teams isolated two different genes.<
Thanks, Spencer.  That's interesting and a reminder to go over things
carefully before shooting one's mouth off on the net.
-Bryce

6) From: Spencer W. Thomas
However, without your note, i would not have known about the previous work,
so it was interesting and informative.
=S
Bryce Decker wrote:
<Snip>

7) From: Robert Cantor
Of note is that the two different methods will probably produce different
tasting results.  There will be different precursor molecules present
depending on where the process is stopped.  Stopping early on will probably
give the taste closest to coffee as we know it, perhaps with a bitter
element gone for those who think caffeine tastses bitter.  Stopping the
process at the end will leave whatever comes before caffeine around in much
higher concentrations than before.  Hope whatever it is tastes good    :)
Bob C.
rcantor

8) From: Spencer W. Thomas
Robert Cantor wrote:
<Snip>
Caffeine does taste bitter.  in fact, it's frequently used as a "standard" for
bitterness when calibrating people's taste sensitivities.
=Spencer

9) From: Robert Cantor
The FDA claims that in soft drink concentrations, caffeine can't be tasted.
Coke and Pepsi disagree.  They have half the caffeine (if memory serves) as
coffee, but others have much more (than C & P)
Bob C.
rcantor

10) From: Michael Allen Smith
I just went to the Red Bull sports drink web site and found this line:
"Caffeine is not a harmful substance in itself. The bitter ingredients and
the roasting process are really responsible for coffee's being considered
potentially harmful to one's health. Contrary to coffee, Red Bull contains
pure - not roasted - caffeine."
Of course they don't mention that their product is loaded with sugar,
whereas coffee is sugar and calorie free.  This sounds like (red) bull to
me.
mas
<Snip>
tasted.
<Snip>
as
<Snip>

11) From: Jcpxyz1
Has anyone in the group had personal experience with any of the extra high  
caffeine beans? I'm wondering if the increase is really noticeable, and/or if 
the taste is inferior to the regular beans we get from SW. I could use more 
caffeine to get going in the morning, but if taste suffers, 'tain't worth it.
Thanks, and saludos - Jim
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

12) From: Charlie Herlihy
<Snip>
<Snip>
If you're talking about robusto, which has almost twice the caffeine of arabica, then 'taint worth it. Natural dry processed, whole dried coffee has a little more  than the usual washed coffee because it's not soaked in water at any point. That can certainly be tasty. Is there some new coffee being advertised as super high caffeine ?
Saludos y un abrazo    Charlie
---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup

13) From: Timothy A Reed
On Sat, 25 May 2002 08:18:38 EDT Jcpxyz1 writes:
<Snip>
high  
<Snip>
and/or if 
<Snip>
more 
<Snip>
worth it.
Pick up a lb or two of the Classic Italian espresso... 12.5% robusta...
you'll taste it, but it isn't objectionable at darker roasts.  Definately
more kick than, say, Monkey.
-Tim
In your heart you wonder which of these is true
The road that leads to nowhere
The road that leads to you
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14) From:
You're probably talking about Black tiger blend or one like it.  They have
taken regular beans and added xtra caffien to them, kind of decafination in
reverse!  I have never tried it, thought it might be a novelty for fun but
never spent the money on it.  I would guess it would taste ok, I've seen it
sold at "coffee people" in the Portland airport, really stretching the
memory here and I could have all the names wrong!
Scott
<Snip>
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15) From: David Lewis
At 8:18 AM -0400 5/25/02, Jcpxyz1 wrote:
<Snip>
Well, any of the high-quality robustas will have about twice the 
caffeine of arabica, but since you only add about 1/8 robusta to an 
espresso blend, it's not going to affect it much. At SCAA, there was 
somebody pitching "Extreme Beans," which were increased caffeine. 
After having half a dozen espressi by the time I reached that part of 
the hall, it seemed such a terrible idea that I didn't pay much 
attention. Somebody on alt.coffee posted a link to a source of 
caffeine soap, so you'd take it in through your skin while you take a 
shower.
You're young, aren't you? :)
Best,
	David
-- 
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, 
signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are 
not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed."
	--Dwight D. Eisenhower
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

16) From: Dan Bollinger
Seems like I have to defend my coffee hobby occasionally with the non-coffee
drinking wife.  So, I occasionally do some research to blow her
coffee/caffeine myths outta the water.  Here's a tidbit I found at Coffee
Science that my be useful to you, too.  "There is no scientific evidence
that caffeine produces anxiety in humans."   The 'jitters' maybe, but
'anxiety', no.  ;)  Shhh.... don't tell her I said so.  Dan
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

17) From: DeCambre.Peter
I will be out of the office starting  11/26/2002 and will not return
until 12/02/2002.
I will respond to your message when I return.
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

18) From: Diablo
Anyone get in those conversations with another person about "great" coffee and
they start talking about how they like it strong.  Eventually they will bring
up French Roast and Espresso Roast and of course, Charbucks.  
I do my best, from knowing a difference, to share knowledge and help bring
about a deeper appreciation for coffee itself.  When I share my roast, several
have stated weak coffee.  This makes me a bit sad in some ways.  The only
rebuttal I can think of is along the lines of what they think a strong coffee
is, which without a doubt in their head has to taste like charcoal.  (that is
totally setting aside their improper brewing of a superior coffee in the first
place, but that's besides the point)
So, through thought and contemplation, I have come to a question that will
hopefully bring about a change with the answer for my coffee friends that need
help in appreciation.  
To what extent is the caffeine content effected by the roast level?  That's to
say, do darker roasts contain more caffiene?  Herein I believe I can quell
those seeking the charcoal for strength and offer them food for thought in
asking them what they think a strong coffee is.  This also places an assumption
in that the caffeine content is the measure of the strength.  In either case I
wish to stir question as to their liking of the charcoal for the strength.  
It's my feeling that the bean contains X amount of caffeine, regardless of
roast level.  I do not know this for fact however, so I appeal to the coffee
guru's:)  Their knowledge and experience is without a doubt superior to mine:) 
I know that's probably been brought up before, thanks for your indulgence,
Leo
Changing the world one Moka Pot at time:)

19) From: miKe mcKoffee
<Snip>
99% sure previous discussions backed by research data found was it's the
other way around. Darker roast of same bean has less than lighter roast.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

20) From: Don Cummings
Actually there is something called (i think) a Brix Meter which measures the
Total Dissolved Solids in a cup of coffee.  This measures the true strength
of the coffee.
Others here probably know a lot more about this measuring method than I do
and could provide better details.
I, for one, however, have given up on trying to convert those who have been
brainwashed ("palatewashed"?) into thinking that the char roast is the
superior tasting coffee.
On the other hand it is rare that people have tried my coffee and thought
that it was relatively weak.  Usually the reaction is the opposite. "Wow, I
usually don't like my coffee so strong but this is so smooth and unbitter"
is a very typical response that I get.
In terms of caffeine content the only possible result of darker roasting
would be to lessen the caffeine since the roasting process itself would
obviously not be creating caffeine.
Now overextraction, otoh, can dramatically increase caffeine levels all
other factors remaining constant since caffeine is one of the last chemicals
to be released in the extraction process.
I notice your signature says "changing the world one moka pot at a time."
Does this mean that you are brewing moka for for these people that claim it
is weak coffee?  If so, then give up immediately.  Anyone who would claim a
moka is weak even if the roast is a cinnamon can not be helped. Save your
strength and move on to less damaged palates. :)
On 7/6/06, Diablo  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Don

21) From: Tom Ogren
Yep. For any given bean, roast length is inversely proportional to the
amount of caffeine in the cup. In other words, your friends' "strong" coffee
(roasted beyond recognition) packs less punch than your City+ with all of
its origin character (and its caffeine content intact).
On 7/6/06, miKe mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>

22) From: Aaron
So technically.  if we could stomach the taste, if you REALLY want to 
get wired.  stew some unroasted beans for a bit and drink the water.  
now THAT is a caffeine buzz for sure.
Aaron

23) From: Don Cummings
Enough to get a goat to dance.
On 7/6/06, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Don

24) From: David Schooley
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On Jul 6, 2006, at 10:33 PM, Don Cummings wrote:
<Snip>
Or skip the water and just eat the unroasted beans. My dog eats any  
roasted beans that fall to the floor of my kitchen. (No, this  
probably isn't good for him.) He will not touch unroasted coffee.
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On Jul 6, 2006, at =
10:33 PM, Don Cummings wrote:
Enough to = get a goat to dance. On 7/6/06, = Aaron <beerbong> = wrote: So = technically.if we could stomach the taste, if you REALLY want = to get wired.stew some unroasted beans for a bit and drink the = water. now THAT is a caffeine buzz for = sure. Or skip the = water and just eat the unroasted beans. My dog eats any roasted beans = that fall to the floor of my kitchen. (No, this probably isn't good for = him.) He will not touch unroasted coffee. = --Apple-Mail-1--9005536--

25) From: Brett Mason
Maybe you have an - er - aftermarket opportunity with your dog?  People do
sell all kinds of coffee...
"David The Coffee Dude's Dood Coffee..."
Civets got nothing on Beagles....
Brett
On 7/6/06, David Schooley  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
HomeRoast
   Zassman

26) From: David Schooley
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On Jul 6, 2006, at 10:59 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
<Snip>
He crunches the roasted ones, so I would have to sell them as pre- 
ground. Maybe I could train him to do a drip crunch, espresso crunch,  
or French Press crunch, depending on what the customer wanted.
Do palm civets dance?
<Snip>
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On Jul 6, 2006, at =
10:59 PM, Brett Mason wrote:
Maybe you = have an - er - aftermarket opportunity with your dog? People do sell = all kinds of coffee... "David The Coffee Dude's Dood = Coffee..." Civets got nothing on Beagles.... = Brett
He crunches the roasted = ones, so I would have to sell them as pre-ground. Maybe I could train = him to do a drip crunch, espresso crunch, or French Press crunch, = depending on what the customer wanted.
Do palm civets = dance?

= On 7/6/06, David Schooley <dcschooley> = wrote: On = Jul 6, 2006, at 10:33 PM, Don Cummings wrote: Enough to get a goat to dance. On 7/6/06, Aaron = <beerbong> = wrote: So technically.if we could stomach the taste, if you REALLY = want to get wired.stew some unroasted beans for a bit and drink = the water. now THAT is a caffeine buzz for = sure. = Or skip the water and just eat the = unroasted beans. My dog eats any roasted beans that fall to the floor of = my kitchen. (No, this probably isn't good for him.) He will not touch = unroasted coffee.
-- Regards, Brett Mason HomeRoast = Zassman = --Apple-Mail-2--6506212--

27) From: Ed Needham
I'll definitely say that chewing on a green coffee bean gives a surreal 
caffeine experience and it is 100% legal.  It's definitely not the same 
caffeine buzz you get from roasted coffee.  It's not tasty, but it isn't 
bad.  Definitely not coffee flavored.
The darker you roast, the less caffeine is present in the bean.  The darker 
roasted beans are lighter in weight than lighter roasted beans, so if you 
are measuring caffeine by weight, the figure is different than by volume.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] in subject line to get through my SPAM filters)
*********************

28) From: miKe mcKoffee
When in cherry form the seed (bean) is quite chewable, not nearly as hard as
when dried to green. The cherry pulp is rather sweet, and of course was
warned not to chew the seed 'cuz it's very bitter, so of course I did. Yes,
major pucker power! Didn't taste bad per se' though.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

29) From: rnkyle
I think most people referring to strong coffee has nothing to do with the 
caffine content its the roast. Most people think dark robust coffee has more 
caffine and we all know it has less then a lighter roast. Orgin has a part 
in this also as most coffee shops roast Africans dark and Sumatras which 
have huge body roasted dark will definetly give the person that taste of 
bold strong taste.
Tell them to use more coffee in their coffee maker to make a stonger cup. 
But I'd bet if you roast some Sumatra into rolling 2nd crack that they would 
say now that is strong coffee.
RK

30) From: Aaron
Do palm civets dance?
==============
Well if you heat up the spoon they are standing in they might.  Im 
picturing that old tom and jerry cartoon where he has the mouse in a 
spoon and holds him over a candle.  However if you can train them to sit 
up and beg, you might have another marketing ploy there.... the palm rat 
that is not the dog.
Aaron

31) From: Alchemist John
Just to be annoyingly technical, stewed green coffee would not get 
you that much caffeine, nor eating the green coffee, or anything like 
that.  The green beans are just too hard and the caffeine to bound up 
in the matrix.  You need the roasting to make it accessible.  But if 
taste is not an issue, a very light city, just into 1st, would be 
your best bet.  Those you could chew up and have the best bang for 
your buck.  And while we are at it, THAT would be a strong cup of 
coffee (strongly acidic).
At 20:30 7/6/2006, you wrote:
<Snip>
John Nanci
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting , Blending & Espresso pulling by Gestalthttp://www.chocolatealchemy.com/

32) From: rwh
If you hold the roast constant, the amount of caffeine is going to be
related to the 'strength' of the coffee. More ground coffee gets you a
'stronger' brew and more caffeine. If you've spent most of your life
living with that relationship you're going to associate a darker roast
with more caffeine even when that isn't the case simply because the
darker roast tastes 'stronger'.
We can all be re-educated but life-long habits take time to change. I've
largely given up on my family, but I still have hopes for my co-workers :-)
--rick
Diablo wrote:
<Snip>

33) From: Aaron
of course if you really need a caffeine fix, you can grind up a few no 
doz and throw them into your coffee and drink it.
yeah... that werks fer me!!
Aa  AA  aaa  Aaarooon .........

34) From: Steven Sobel
Of course, you first roasted the no doz to FC didn't you?  :)
Steve
On 7/7/06, Aaron  wrote:
<Snip>

35) From: Michael Holland
The Brix meter is called a refractometer and measures
the sugar content of wine grapes, fruits or other
sources. 
I would imagine that there is some kind of
testing/metering for caffeine content in a lab
context. Whether such a tool exists for the rest of us
is debatable. 
I am curious as to how measurable the sugars in brewed
coffee would be before additives....
Michael Holland
Los Angeles City Archives
VP, Cellarmasters

36) From: Don Cummings
Actually the meter to which I refer would be used to measure the particulate
matter in the solution. This would give a relative index of coffee
strength.  There is no useful info derived from measuring the caffeine level
in measuring the strength of a cup of coffee.  Espresso has a very high Brix
reading while having relatively low caffeine.
On 7/7/06, Michael Holland  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Don

37) From: Diablo
Thanks to all for your input.  
To answer another post, no, they are not stateing my Moka brew to be weak. 
They go home and brew my roast and come back with a weak statement.  This is
why I made that side note as to the methods used to brew the coffee.  
Thanks again guys,
Leo
--- Tom Ogren  wrote:
<Snip>

38) From: javafool
I have had the same experience with coffee I have given away. About 1/3
think it is delicious. Another 1/3 say it tastes too weak. I attribute =
this
to the lack of the typical stale flavor found in canned coffees that is
obviously missing from mine. The last 1/3 say it is too strong. These =
people
I believe taste all the extra flavor that they are not used to.
Terry


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