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Topic: 1st & 2nd crack overlap(was+ISH vs. Mokha Rimi) (11 msgs / 194 lines)
1) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 10:23 1/21/2003, dewardh typed:
<Snip>
An observation here.  Over the last couple of weeks I have, for what ever 
reason (gestalt roasting), been controlling my roast so as to make sure the 
beans are uniform in color before entering 1st crack (or as I suspect, 
uniform in moisture).  On my modified WBI, this amounts to  switching the 
heater off and on as needed (up to 300 F).  The result of this has been 
very distinct 1st and 2nd crack phases.  Beans in the past (mokha Rimi) 
which sort of ran together in their cracks suddenly had more aggressive 1st 
crack, a good pause and then the start of 2nd.
So try lengthening your drying time and see if that helps your roast.
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Roasting and Blending by Gestalt
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2) From: Ben Treichel
Another CSA motto Idea, "May the Gestalt be With You"  :-D
AlChemist John wrote:
<Snip>
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3) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
I found this also in a batch of green that I dried in my food dehydrator.
Guatemala Asobagri was dried at 95F for about a day. Compared to the
original moist beans, the duration of first was very much shorter and the
intensity was like a fireworks finale. The crack ended abruptly. I think the
end result of the moist beans was better, but I need to do a few more roasts
of dried beans to compare.
--
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4) From: Jim Gundlach
On Wednesday, January 22, 2003, at 07:57 AM, AlChemist John wrote:
<Snip>
   I've found the same thing.  In the wok, start with lower heat and 
faster stirring until all the beans are a nice even cinnamon color then 
slow the stirring and increase the heat to get a quick first crack and 
as soon as it starts to taper off from rolling, reduce heat and 
increase stirring to take a slow and cautious heating into second 
before stopping where you want and cooling.   Almost, but not quite,  
always will give a pause between first and second crack.  I can create 
the same effect with the fireplace popcorn poppers over a wood fire but 
it helps having seen it in the wok first.
Jim Gundlach
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5) From: Jim Gundlach
On Wednesday, January 22, 2003, at 08:37 AM, Ken Mary wrote:
<Snip>
    It may be that the higher moisture beans gave a more bracketed roast 
without trying.
Jim Gundlach
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6) From: Lee XOC
< On Behalf Of Jim Gundlach
< Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 7:11 AM
<
<    I've found the same thing.  In the wok, start with lower heat and
< faster stirring until all the beans are a nice even cinnamon
< color then
< slow the stirring and increase the heat to get a quick first
< crack and
< as soon as it starts to taper off from rolling, reduce heat and
< increase stirring to take a slow and cautious heating into second
< before stopping where you want and cooling.   Almost, but not quite,
< always will give a pause between first and second crack.  I
< can create
< the same effect with the fireplace popcorn poppers over a
< wood fire but
< it helps having seen it in the wok first.
This is interesting - I've stumbled upon a very similar technique
applied to the FR+.  I try to get the beans as uniform as possible going
into c1 by switching over to a 1 min. cooling cycle 2-3 times during the
first part of the roast.  Then after c1 I've been doing a long 2 min
cooldown before firing it back up for c2, in order to semi-simulate the
double-roasting we've discussed recently.
I think the procedure still needs fine-tuning though.  The roasts so far
have all come out good, as in nothing objectionable, but not great.
I've noticed the most prominent feature of a variety of beans roasted
this way is a distinct lack of anything very noticeable ... just a very
middle-of-the-road flavor, a little *too smooth* if you will.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Lee / San Diego
---------------------------------
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7) From: steve_w
Quoting Lee XOC :
<Snip>
What roasting times to first crack are we talking about?  I've been
trying to figure out why 1st crack sounds are so inconsistent (anything
from loud popping to "lost in the noise") and one characteristic of
roasts where 1st crack has nearly snuck right by me seems to a long 
ramp to first crack, with long being somewhere beyond 8-9 minutes.
Steve Wall
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8) From: Lee XOC
< steve_w
< Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 10:06 AM
<
< What roasting times to first crack are we talking about?  I've been
< trying to figure out why 1st crack sounds are so inconsistent
< (anything
< from loud popping to "lost in the noise") and one characteristic of
< roasts where 1st crack has nearly snuck right by me seems to a long
< ramp to first crack, with long being somewhere beyond 8-9 minutes.
At least that long, and perhaps as long as 12 minutes or so in some
cases.  I think it's also true that some kinds of beans are going to
have an inherently clean spike c1 bracket while others are going to be
all over the place.  Iirc it was the newish Bolivian that had a very
pronounced and concentrated c1, while the exact same technique applied
to some of the Kenyan beans still leaves stray cracks before and after.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Lee / San Diego
---------------------------------
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9) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
This is what happens with long ramps to first crack. The number of pops is
reduced and can be zero. If you want to roast this way then you need another
gauge, maybe temperature or color, to judge progress. When I tried long
heatup ramps so there was no sound, the flavors did not seem to be any
different over shorter ramps where there were at least a few pops.
--
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10) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 06:11 1/22/2003, Ben Treichel typed:
<Snip>
Has my biased vote :-)
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Roasting and Blending by Gestalt
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11) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 10:06 1/22/2003, steve_w typed:
<Snip>
For me, we are talking 6-7 minutes.  The drying stage (up to 300 as I 
consider it) is usually 4-5 minutes.
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Roasting and Blending by Gestalt
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