HomeRoast Digest


Topic: newbie question (117 msgs / 2996 lines)
1) From: stephen rouse
i just started home-roasting about a week ago, and i am absolutely 
amazed at how good my morning cups have been.
i have a question about the progression of the roast. When i read 
Tom's roasting suggestions for a particular coffee, i often come 
across phrases like "10 seconds into the second crack". what exactly 
does this mean? when i roast, there a bunch of second cracks :)
does the above phrase mean 10 seconds after i hear the first of the 
many second cracks?
thanks for your help.
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

2) From: R.N.Kyle
Steven, welcome aboard. 
First crack is of course the first ones you hear, and they are more like =
a pop, they will continue and get more rapid. then slow down and come to =
a stand still. in a few more moments the 2nd crack will start, and it =
will be more like a crackle sound. like rice crispies when you pour milk =
over them. This is what Tom refers to when he says 10 sec into 2nd =
crack. Like Jim said this will be with a faster roaster like a popper or =
Fresh Roast Plus, roasting in a larger roaster like an Alpenroast or BBQ =
drum roaster 2nd crack will be longer to get to the same point.
good luck
Ron Kyle
Anderson SC
rnkyle

3) From: stephen rouse
i just started home-roasting about a week ago, and i am absolutely 
amazed at how good my morning cups have been.
i have a question about the progression of the roast. When i read 
Tom's roasting suggestions for a particular coffee, i often come 
across phrases like "10 seconds into the second crack". what exactly 
does this mean? when i roast, there a bunch of second cracks :)
does the above phrase mean 10 seconds after i hear the first of the 
many second cracks?
thanks for your help.
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

4) From: Victor Blackwell
Stephen,
Are you still there?
Vic
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

5) From: jim gundlach
On Friday, January 31, 2003, at 05:09 PM, stephen rouse wrote:
<Snip>
   This would be about ten seconds after the second cracks are regular,  
  It also assumes a rather fast roaster and if you are using a slower 
method, it would be more like 30 to 45 seconds.
Jim Gundlach
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

6) From: Allen Marsalis
Hello experienced roasters!
I have been roasting 2-3 times per week for almost a year now and
I have a question that I have been dying to ask someone who knows
such things.  Then I found out about this list the other day...
But first, a little background might help.  I own a Cafe Rosto and
a high-power variac that works well to slow down what was otherwise
a really quick roast that only lasted about 8 or 9 minutes.  Perhaps
my grid voltage is on the high side.  I roast for espresso but do
not like the very dark "Starbucks" type roast.
My "roast profile" as many of you seem to call it, is as follows.
Pardon me if I'm a bit new at this and provide the wrong info.
I'd rather provide too much than too little.
I roast using about 90-95VAC which gives me the desired color
that I'm looking for in about 16-17 minutes.  At this voltage
I do not get much if any "fluid bed" motion out of the beans
until the cooling cycle.  Sometimes I get a little bit of oily
shine on the beans but often they remain "flat" or "egg shell"
in finish.
Sometimes after the cooling cycle begins, I plug the Rosto
into the wall to speed up the motion and get rid of more
chaff, but I don't always rememeber to do this.
I roast my own made up blends that I'm sure would gag a proper
expert, but I really enjoy the experimentation.  During the roasting
process different beans turn different colors at different times.
But I suppose that my color can best be described as the lighter
beans being "milk chocolate" in color while the darker beans are
"dark chocolate" in color, and with most beans somewhere in between.
Anyway, ever since I started roasting, this phenomenon happens.
Small flakes or flecks pop off the beans surface during or right
after "second crack".  These flecks often accumulate in a balancing
act upon the top of the dome inside of the Rosto's bowl.
This happens no matter what I do. (except for under roasting the
beans that is)  I cannot seem to escape this roasting quick or
slow, and I don't see anything inside the Rosto that would strike
the beans and cause such damage.  The darker I roast, the more
flecks I end up with.
What is sort of sick about this, is that I often use this flaking
process as a gauge in determining where I am in the process much
like "first crack" and "second crack".  Heh, I guess I might call
this "third crack".  :-)
Anyway, this makes my roasted beans unsightly which is a major
reason why I do not share more with family and friends or give
fresh roasted beans as gifts.
Can anyone tell me what the heck is up with this flaking of
the beans surface during the final stages of roasting?  I've
never seen such flakes in a professional roasted product, even
of much darker color.  And my apologies if this is a basic or
stupid question that I should know the answer to by now.  Sometimes
the simplest problems are the hardest for a beginner to solve..
Thanks,
Allen
am

7) From: Ben Treichel
Divits is what we call them. At least it sounds like it. Try shortening 
your roast by 2 to 3 minutes, and use higher power to 1st cravk and 
resuced power after. See how that works.
Ben
Allen Marsalis wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Ben Treichel
Program Manager
S.E Michigan
SwRI
248-232-7365 (o)
248-935-6845 (m)

8) From: Lesley Albjerg
Allen this is a problem caused by the coffee beans not having enough of a fluid bed.  One reason I don't like the Cafe Rosto.  The bean heats super hot on the metal and you get a divet popping off the bean each time due to tempature differences.  The only cure I can think of is to spit wire your setup so your blower can go faster and you control the heat with your variac.
 
Les
Allen Marsalis  wrote:
Hello experienced roasters!
I have been roasting 2-3 times per week for almost a year now and
I have a question that I have been dying to ask someone who knows
such things. Then I found out about this list the other day...
But first, a little background might help. I own a Cafe Rosto and
a high-power variac that works well to slow down what was otherwise
a really quick roast that only lasted about 8 or 9 minutes. Perhaps
my grid voltage is on the high side. I roast for espresso but do
not like the very dark "Starbucks" type roast.
My "roast profile" as many of you seem to call it, is as follows.
Pardon me if I'm a bit new at this and provide the wrong info.
I'd rather provide too much than too little.
I roast using about 90-95VAC which gives me the desired color
that I'm looking for in about 16-17 minutes. At this voltage
I do not get much if any "fluid bed" motion out of the beans
until the cooling cycle. Sometimes I get a little bit of oily
shine on the beans but often they remain "flat" or "egg shell"
in finish.
Sometimes after the cooling cycle begins, I plug the Rosto
into the wall to speed up the motion and get rid of more
chaff, but I don't always rememeber to do this.
I roast my own made up blends that I'm sure would gag a proper
expert, but I really enjoy the experimentation. During the roasting
process different beans turn different colors at different times.
But I suppose that my color can best be described as the lighter
beans being "milk chocolate" in color while the darker beans are
"dark chocolate" in color, and with most beans somewhere in between.
Anyway, ever since I started roasting, this phenomenon happens.
Small flakes or flecks pop off the beans surface during or right
after "second crack". These flecks often accumulate in a balancing
act upon the top of the dome inside of the Rosto's bowl.
This happens no matter what I do. (except for under roasting the
beans that is) I cannot seem to escape this roasting quick or
slow, and I don't see anything inside the Rosto that would strike
the beans and cause such damage. The darker I roast, the more
flecks I end up with.
What is sort of sick about this, is that I often use this flaking
process as a gauge in determining where I am in the process much
like "first crack" and "second crack". Heh, I guess I might call
this "third crack". :-)
Anyway, this makes my roasted beans unsightly which is a major
reason why I do not share more with family and friends or give
fresh roasted beans as gifts.
Can anyone tell me what the heck is up with this flaking of
the beans surface during the final stages of roasting? I've
never seen such flakes in a professional roasted product, even
of much darker color. And my apologies if this is a basic or
stupid question that I should know the answer to by now. Sometimes
the simplest problems are the hardest for a beginner to solve..
Thanks,
Allen
am
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs 

9) From: Allen Marsalis
Thanks for the reply Ben..  Sounds like an idea!  I haven't tried
changing the voltage during the roast cycle.  I'll let you
know what happens.
Allen
am
At 08:16 PM 5/3/2004 -0400, Ben Treichel wrote:
 >Divits is what we call them. At least it sounds like it. Try shortening
 >your roast by 2 to 3 minutes, and use higher power to 1st cravk and
 >resuced power after. See how that works.
 >
 >Ben
 >
 >Allen Marsalis wrote:
 >
 >> Hello experienced roasters!
 >>
 >> I have been roasting 2-3 times per week for almost a year now and
 >> I have a question that I have been dying to ask someone who knows
 >> such things.  Then I found out about this list the other day...
 >>
 >> But first, a little background might help.  I own a Cafe Rosto and
 >> a high-power variac that works well to slow down what was otherwise
 >> a really quick roast that only lasted about 8 or 9 minutes.  Perhaps
 >> my grid voltage is on the high side.  I roast for espresso but do
 >> not like the very dark "Starbucks" type roast.
 >>
 >> My "roast profile" as many of you seem to call it, is as follows.
 >> Pardon me if I'm a bit new at this and provide the wrong info.
 >> I'd rather provide too much than too little.
 >>
 >> I roast using about 90-95VAC which gives me the desired color
 >> that I'm looking for in about 16-17 minutes.  At this voltage
 >> I do not get much if any "fluid bed" motion out of the beans
 >> until the cooling cycle.  Sometimes I get a little bit of oily
 >> shine on the beans but often they remain "flat" or "egg shell"
 >> in finish.
 >>
 >> Sometimes after the cooling cycle begins, I plug the Rosto
 >> into the wall to speed up the motion and get rid of more
 >> chaff, but I don't always rememeber to do this.
 >>
 >> I roast my own made up blends that I'm sure would gag a proper
 >> expert, but I really enjoy the experimentation.  During the roasting
 >> process different beans turn different colors at different times.
 >> But I suppose that my color can best be described as the lighter
 >> beans being "milk chocolate" in color while the darker beans are
 >> "dark chocolate" in color, and with most beans somewhere in between.
 >>
 >> Anyway, ever since I started roasting, this phenomenon happens.
 >> Small flakes or flecks pop off the beans surface during or right
 >> after "second crack".  These flecks often accumulate in a balancing
 >> act upon the top of the dome inside of the Rosto's bowl.
 >>
 >> This happens no matter what I do. (except for under roasting the
 >> beans that is)  I cannot seem to escape this roasting quick or
 >> slow, and I don't see anything inside the Rosto that would strike
 >> the beans and cause such damage.  The darker I roast, the more
 >> flecks I end up with.
 >>
 >> What is sort of sick about this, is that I often use this flaking
 >> process as a gauge in determining where I am in the process much
 >> like "first crack" and "second crack".  Heh, I guess I might call
 >> this "third crack".  :-)
 >>
 >> Anyway, this makes my roasted beans unsightly which is a major
 >> reason why I do not share more with family and friends or give
 >> fresh roasted beans as gifts.
 >>
 >> Can anyone tell me what the heck is up with this flaking of
 >> the beans surface during the final stages of roasting?  I've
 >> never seen such flakes in a professional roasted product, even
 >> of much darker color.  And my apologies if this is a basic or
 >> stupid question that I should know the answer to by now.  Sometimes
 >> the simplest problems are the hardest for a beginner to solve..
 >>
 >> Thanks,
 >>
 >> Allen
 >> am
 >>

10) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
On May 3, 2004, at 6:25 PM, Allen Marsalis wrote:  A rather long piece 
about divots that I cut.
Allen,
     We call these little things divots.  I never get them when I roast 
over fires or in a wok.  I used to get them when I used a hot air 
popper.  They are usually found in a fast roast.  I have never heard of 
anyone getting divots with a 16 to 17 minute roast.  I have never used 
a Cafe Rosto so I don't know if it is inclined to make divots or not.
    My suggestion, try another roasting method.
       Jim Gundlach

11) From: Allen Marsalis
Interesting that you say this.  I was thinking about "split wiring",
but my logic was to remove more chaff with the faster motion.  I
often have a some chaff left on the smaller denser beans that don't
crack as hard.
I wonder if a "vent hole" in the drum could be overheating a small
area of a bean and cause it to pop off?  Or else maybe the "divit" is
simply the contact point with the bowl which I am letting overhead
towards the end of the roast, as you describe.  Or both...
If backing off the power towards the end of the roast doesn't solve
this, I will take this sucker apart and split wire it..  Or I could
buy another roaster.  The Hottop Drum Roaster looks nice, but the
need to maintain the air filter chased me off, not just the initial
price tag.  I do not wish to spend $1 per lb extra forever for air
filtration, nor do I need the extra chore of trying to clean up a
used one to save money.
Allen
am
At 05:30 PM 5/3/2004 -0700, Lesley Albjerg wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
can go faster and you control the heat with your variac.
<Snip>
Oh Les, stop it with that 'spit wire' technique...it's just too dangerous.
Reminds me of my Grandfather Smith telling me that in the early days of
automobiles the wise guys used to tell the country boys that it was a secret
thrill to take a leak on the spark plug of a running motor...
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

13) From: Allen Marsalis
At 08:58 PM 5/3/2004 -0500, Pecan Jim Gundlach wrote:
 >
 >On May 3, 2004, at 6:25 PM, Allen Marsalis wrote:  A rather long piece
 >about divots that I cut.
Hehe, well my job is in the "tech sector" and I hate having to
diagnose problems remotely without enough 411 is all.  Now that
I think about it, I could have posted a small picture of a close-up
of a divot and type three words, "What is this?".
 >     We call these little things divots.  I never get them when I roast
 >over fires or in a wok.  I used to get them when I used a hot air
 >popper.  They are usually found in a fast roast.  I have never heard of
 >anyone getting divots with a 16 to 17 minute roast.  I have never used
 >a Cafe Rosto so I don't know if it is inclined to make divots or not.
 >
 >    My suggestion, try another roasting method.
 >
Wow, roasting over a fire.  I haven't camped out in years.  I would
really like to roast some beans one evening and perhaps they would
gas off enough my morning.  But for my daily routine, I would have
to use something that works rain or shine. I had never heard of roasting
in a wok before.. This sounds interesting.  I have a gas stove.  Please
post any bookmarks on roasting with a wok if you have any.  Otherwise,
I might just dive in!  One question though.  Do you use a wok used for
cooking food too?  Or it is best to dedicate a "coffee wok" to the
pantry?  And also, can I "season" the wok with any kind of oil, or
none at all? (oil in coffee will season it over time)  thx Jim..
Allen
am

14) From: Ben Treichel
Allen Marsalis wrote:
Spliting the wiring is a good idea since when you turn down heater 
volatge, your turn down fan voltage; unless you split.
Ben
<Snip>
-- 
Ben Treichel
Program Manager
S.E Michigan
SwRI
248-232-7365 (o)
248-935-6845 (m)

15) From: Allen Marsalis
At 09:33 PM 5/3/2004 -0500, Gene Smith wrote:
 >> ...The only cure I can think of is to spit wire your setup so your blower
 >can go faster and you control the heat with your variac.
 >>
 >> Les
 >
 >Oh Les, stop it with that 'spit wire' technique...it's just too dangerous.
Gene, thanks for looking out for everyone's safety.  Even a
semi-enclosed Chinese made variac carries it's own risks.  It
might not be a good idea to let the kids play near it with
paper clips, if you know what I mean.
As for my particular case, I may be relatively new to homeroasting,
but I am not new to NEC.  I am not a true EE, but I fake it pretty
good.  I'll be ok, but I cannot speak for others who may be lurking.
In any event, "Think safety first!" by all means.
 >Reminds me of my Grandfather Smith telling me that in the early days of
 >automobiles the wise guys used to tell the country boys that it was a secret
 >thrill to take a leak on the spark plug of a running motor...
 >
Well, keeping this in the context of "do it yourself" HOME roasters,
I would anticipate a certain level of experimentation and innovation
among this crowd.
It makes perfect engineering sense to have two variacs, one for the
heating elements, and one for the fan.  The danger is that one might
overheat and burn out the element or motor, but that can probably
happen anyway with the indiscriminate use of a variac.
Allen
am

16) From: Lesley Albjerg
So, someone noticed I left the "l" out of split!  What you said reminds me of my friend Tommy who was a city-boy that I took to my grandpa's farm.  He wondered what would happen if he peed on the electric fence.  He found out the hard way!
 
Les
Gene Smith  wrote:
<Snip>
can go faster and you control the heat with your variac.
<Snip>
Oh Les, stop it with that 'spit wire' technique...it's just too dangerous.
Reminds me of my Grandfather Smith telling me that in the early days of
automobiles the wise guys used to tell the country boys that it was a secret
thrill to take a leak on the spark plug of a running motor...
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs 

17) From: H Hurd
snip . . . I roast using about 90-95VAC which gives me the desired color
that I'm looking for in about 16-17 minutes.  At this voltage
I do not get much if any "fluid bed" motion out of the beans
until the cooling cycle. . .
Hi Allen,
I Cafe Rosto roasted for 2 1/2 yrs before buying a Hottop earlier this year.
I know all about divots.  You mention lack of bean motion, & I wondered if
you've tried tilting the unit about 45 deg or more, low end the side
opposite the chaff collector.  On my 2nd Rosto this was how I increased
agitation & slowed the roast down.  Divots were not eliminated but
minimized.
Good luck,
Holly

18) From: Ed Needham
Yeah, and don't 'ever' drag the watering hose over the electric fence either.
Not that I ever did that or anything... 
*******************************
Ed Needham (still trying to catch up after the SCAA conference)
To Absurdity and Beyond!
homeroaster ... d.o.t ... com
*******************************

19) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
Allen,
      I will put answering this in the todo list after I get through 
finals and the now only 535 unread e-mail messages.
               Jim Gundlach
On May 3, 2004, at 9:51 PM, Allen Marsalis wrote:
<Snip>

20) From: Allen Marsalis
At 08:26 AM 5/4/2004 -0400, H Hurd wrote:
 >Hi Allen,
 >I Cafe Rosto roasted for 2 1/2 yrs before buying a Hottop earlier this year.
 >I know all about divots.  You mention lack of bean motion, & I wondered if
 >you've tried tilting the unit about 45 deg or more, low end the side
 >opposite the chaff collector.  On my 2nd Rosto this was how I increased
 >agitation & slowed the roast down.  Divots were not eliminated but
 >minimized.
 >Good luck,
 >Holly
 >
Thanks Holly.  Great idea, I'll give that one a try as well.
Allen
am

21) From: Johnny Kent
At 08:58 PM 5/3/2004 -0500, Jim Gundlach wrote:
<Snip>
Jim,
I madea similar claim myself earlier this year over on alt coffee but was
corrected.
Apparently these are not confined to air roasters, seems more like a by
product of rolling second:http://makeashorterlink.com/?A3A842538Johnny

22) From: Rick Farris
It's been my experience that you won't get divots without second crack, but
you can have second crack without divots.  My opinion is that the divots are
caused by going rapidly into/through second crack.  If I take my time and go
slowly I can get the beans just about as dark as I wish without divots.
On the other hand, if I rush into/through second crack I can get divots no
matter what the roasting appliance.
Unmanaged fluid bed roasters are notorious for creating divots because of
their acceleration of heat.
-- Rick

23) From: Allen Marsalis
At 01:05 PM 5/4/2004 -0700, Rick Farris wrote:
 >It's been my experience that you won't get divots without second crack, but
 >you can have second crack without divots.  My opinion is that the divots are
 >caused by going rapidly into/through second crack.  If I take my time and go
 >slowly I can get the beans just about as dark as I wish without divots.
 >
 >On the other hand, if I rush into/through second crack I can get divots no
 >matter what the roasting appliance.
 >
 >Unmanaged fluid bed roasters are notorious for creating divots because of
 >their acceleration of heat.
 >
Perhaps this effect is similar to the buckling of a concrete highway
in summertime heat.  That is, if the surface of the bean expands faster
than its core, the surface might buckle under the force thus producing
a divot.
That is, the actual divot may or may not be the "contact spot" with the
drum itself (or air stream off a vent hole in the case of no fluid
motion) but rather it represents the weakest spot structurally.
Also now that I think way back, if you take a acetylene/oxygen "cutting
torch" and apply that intense blue flame to a concrete slab, thin flakes
will pop off much like a coffee bean divot.  Try it!  But not in your
parents driveway like I did back in the 70's working on my car.  [Man
those headers with glasspacks (Cyclone Purple Hornies) sure sounded sweet
though]  
Allen
am

24) From: Bill Doman
Jim,
Only 535?  I'm currently at 3003 and that even with using Mailwasher  to
delete things before they go to the inbox if they don't look interesting.
Between chemo and doctor visits and naps, it seems that being a cancer
patient is a fulltime job these days. 
Bill

25) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
I only use the PecanJim account for the home roast list.  I have it 
down to 284 unread.   I have avoided looking at the ones about the 
tradition problems.  I'm a bit afraid of looking at what I started.  I 
did not count the other three email accounts.
         Jim Gundlach
On May 5, 2004, at 9:14 AM, Bill Doman wrote:
<Snip>

26) From: R.N.Kyle
Bill I'm sorry to hear about your cancer. I will add you to the prayer list.
I can  roast some coffee for you if the Dr. and chemo get to be to much.
Just let me know.
Ron Kyle

27) From: Bill Doman
Thanks, Ron!  So far, roasting (being, of course, one of my higher
priority life tasks ) is getting done pretty much on schedule.  The
thing that has really fallen by the wayside is doing almost anything
at the PC (and since we have 6 running full-time here, that COULD
become a problem).  I'm well over 3000 unread e-mails, I've hardly
visited a single non-health or -disability related web site in months,
and my wife's CPU fan is sounding ominously like a Cummings diesel.
But the roasting is getting done, the new puppy is getting petted, and
the garden isn't even getting too out of control.
My oncologist tells me that I'm doing "fantastic--not good,
fantastic", so I feel pretty happy with the whole deal, if that's a
word that can be used in this context.  I do feel incredibly
lucky--most folks with small-cell lung cancer don't get diagnosed
until they're almost ready to die; I got a heart CT last December 30th
as a folow-up to a physical and the next morning was called and asked
to go back for a full-chest CT that same day.  Spent New Years Day
wondering if it would be my last before getting called on the 2nd with
the confirmation that there were 2 masses in the left lung.  Off to a
surgeon, to a radiologist, to a pulmonary specialist, all to determine
that surgery would be the only way to get a biopsy due to the location
of the masses.  The surgeon was expecting non-small-cell and was
planning to take out the lung, but the biopsy came back small cell so
I had major surgery to get a sample and a porta-catheter put in!  But
I've got two lungs, still, so my energy level and stamina, while
reduced by the surgical recovery and the chemo, are still pretty darn
good.
Well, I always said I wanted to retire early (I'm 54)--one more case
of "be careful what you wish for"!  Again, thanks for the offer and
I'll keep it in mind if I find I can't keep up, and thanks especially
for the prayers.  For myself, I'm just trying to keep my prayers to
"Thy will, not mine, be done" and then a few Serenity Prayers (okay,
maybe a few an hour sometimes).
Bill 
<Snip>
Jim
<Snip>
through
<Snip>
I
<Snip>
air
<Snip>
never
<Snip>
would
<Snip>
Please
<Snip>
the
<Snip>
or
<Snip>

28) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
I think I may save Bill's post and haul it out the next time somebody
bitches about there being posts on this list that aren't 100% coffee
related.  This list makes me think of the historic role of coffee beyond
'yum, yum, in the cup'...the coffeehouses, great and small...the millions of
people who have met over a cup of coffee...the extension of hospitality and
a sympathetic ear.  Even if it's F*lgers lying there dead in the Melmac,
there's a lot more to coffee than a nice drink.  As much as I appreciate the
great technical information shared on this list about achieving a great cup
of coffee - and I do - I think it would be such a diminished experience
without some of the other moments shared over those cups.
Be well, Bill...and hang around for another cup.
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

29) From: R.N.Kyle
HERE HERE, Gene, nicely said.

30) From: Allen Marsalis
A quick update FWIW.
Today I roasted a batch without a single divot in my
Cafe Rosto for the very first time.  I call this "beginners
luck" to solve this puzzle on the very first try..  
Here's what I did - Basically two things.  I tilted the
roaster from about 30-45deg to keep the fluid bed motion
going strong as someone here suggested.  And I changed my
roast profile a bit to compensate for the ever increasing
temperature of an air roaster.
First 5 min 100V
next 5min 95V
and last 7min, 90V
The result is the best looking beans I've ever roasted.
The color is much less variable between lighter and darker
beans. Thanks again to all who responded.  This weekend I
hope to roast for some friends who have been waiting on me
to get around to it..
Heh, now watch it taste like sh!t in a day or two after
resting/gassing a while.  Time will tell..
Allen
am
"Only your Barista knows for sure!"

31) From: Ed Needham
Oh, no.  Another profile variable to get better beans!
Very interesting.  No divots.
*******************************
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!
homeroaster ... d.o.t ... com
*******************************

32) From: Lesley Albjerg
Allan,
 
It is going to taste great!  Don't ruin a great roast by putting yourself down.  Remember if you "At first don't succeed, destroy all evidence so nobody knows!"
 
Les
Allen Marsalis  wrote:
A quick update FWIW.
Today I roasted a batch without a single divot in my
Cafe Rosto for the very first time. I call this "beginners
luck" to solve this puzzle on the very first try.. 
Here's what I did - Basically two things. I tilted the
roaster from about 30-45deg to keep the fluid bed motion
going strong as someone here suggested. And I changed my
roast profile a bit to compensate for the ever increasing
temperature of an air roaster.
First 5 min 100V
next 5min 95V
and last 7min, 90V
The result is the best looking beans I've ever roasted.
The color is much less variable between lighter and darker
beans. Thanks again to all who responded. This weekend I
hope to roast for some friends who have been waiting on me
to get around to it..
Heh, now watch it taste like sh!t in a day or two after
resting/gassing a while. Time will tell..
Allen
am
"Only your Barista knows for sure!"---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs 

33) From: Allen Marsalis
Les, you were right! (on both counts)  The beans taste wonderful
and I was wrong to put myself down.  Hey I've made it almost
a whole year roasting all by my lonesome, and I'm already better
at it than some professionals I know!  $tarbucks 
But I did read SM's site real good which was great help.  I was
recently drawn to this list because it is time to take things to
the next level, and so far, so good.
I wanted to make one other comment while on this topic.  I have
been debating in my head whether to split wire my Rosto using
two variacs to gain more control, or to upgrade to a Hottop.  I
think I will do neither.  Here is why..
When holding the Rosto in my hands, I was able to control the
fluid bed motion just fine by tilting to different angles.  I
almost felt like I was doing something (roasting?) rather than
just watching beans go around and around if you know what I mean.
This batch got the most attention I've ever given.
In short, the more love that goes into a roast might translate
into more love in return in the cup.  This new procedure may be my
"happy medium" between wok roasting and using a convenience appliance,
at least for a while anyway.  I'm in no rush to become a uber roaster,
and the journey is more than half the fun and reward anyway.
Happy Roasting!
Allen
am
"Only your Barista knows for sure!"
At 08:02 AM 5/7/2004 -0700, Lesley Albjerg wrote:
<Snip>

34) From: Lesley Albjerg
Great Allen!
 
I love my Poppery 1.  To me that would be an upgrade for you.  It is built like a tank, and I get the same hands-on roasting you are talking about.  Unless money is not a problem, I think that before I would spend $500 plus on a roaster, a good grinder like a Mazzer or a upgrade to a Explobar or Amica would be money better spent. There is a lot of knowledge in the archives and from the members of this list.  Keep asking questions.  For a real hands on experience, try roasting over fire like Pecan Jim!  I really enjoy  roasting over fire!
 
Les 
Allen Marsalis  wrote:
Les, you were right! (on both counts) The beans taste wonderful
and I was wrong to put myself down. Hey I've made it almost
a whole year roasting all by my lonesome, and I'm already better
at it than some professionals I know! $tarbucks 
But I did read SM's site real good which was great help. I was
recently drawn to this list because it is time to take things to
the next level, and so far, so good.
I wanted to make one other comment while on this topic. I have
been debating in my head whether to split wire my Rosto using
two variacs to gain more control, or to upgrade to a Hottop. I
think I will do neither. Here is why..
When holding the Rosto in my hands, I was able to control the
fluid bed motion just fine by tilting to different angles. I
almost felt like I was doing something (roasting?) rather than
just watching beans go around and around if you know what I mean.
This batch got the most attention I've ever given.
In short, the more love that goes into a roast might translate
into more love in return in the cup. This new procedure may be my
"happy medium" between wok roasting and using a convenience appliance,
at least for a while anyway. I'm in no rush to become a uber roaster,
and the journey is more than half the fun and reward anyway.
Happy Roasting!
Allen
am
"Only your Barista knows for sure!"
At 08:02 AM 5/7/2004 -0700, Lesley Albjerg wrote:
<Snip>---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs 

35) From: Jeff Wikstrom
<Snip>
That's totally how I feel.  I can't handle just watching (or listening) to
something happen.  That's why I love stove top.  Les has me pretty well
convinced to put a fire pit in my back yard too!
<Snip>
Coffee is all about the love.  Yeah baby yeah!
Jeff Wikstrom

36) From: Wandering John
Do a archive search on "rockin Rosto" by Mike.  This is a known 
problem/fix  
And most of us go by smell and sound.  But its nice to have a visual to 
go along with that.  
You'll find its very hard to tilt a brick oven - as Charile :o))
John - loving life in the slow lane 
On Friday 07 May 2004 06:28 pm, Jeff Wikstrom wrote:
<Snip>

37) From: John Blumel
On May 7, 2004, at 6:27pm, Allen Marsalis wrote:
<Snip>
I think John Abbott tried this with his Hottop when he first got it but 
it didn't work out so well.
John Blumel

38) From: Wandering John
OH YEAH!  Still carry the scars :o(    Moral: Never touch the HotTop 
because it is WELL  named.
Also have a Rosto and sat it on a wedge of 15 degrees and have NO 
trouble with it.
On Friday 07 May 2004 07:00 pm, John Blumel wrote:
<Snip>

39) From: Angelo
Allen,
I've read that, in a Buddhist monastery, the position of the cook is second 
only to the abbot. The reason is that the position demands such 
concentration and attention to detail that only someone who is highly 
evolved can be given that job.
You're in good company with your attitude. ;-)
Ciao,
Angelo
<Snip>

40) From: Allen Marsalis
Hehe, well I'm no Buddhist monk, but I do own a Chinese Pug!
(Pugs go back 1000's of years and were bred to be companions
to Himalayan monks.)  I also like "Iron Chef" if that counts.  ;)
Anyway, I am excited about coffee. I'm in the steep part of
the learning curve and really enjoying the results.  Thanks
for the kind words Angelo!
Allen
am
At 01:37 PM 5/9/2004 -0400, Angelo wrote:
 >Allen,
 >I've read that, in a Buddhist monastery, the position of the cook is second
 >only to the abbot. The reason is that the position demands such
 >concentration and attention to detail that only someone who is highly
 >evolved can be given that job.
 >You're in good company with your attitude. ;-)
 >Ciao,
 >Angelo
 >
 >
 >>When holding the Rosto in my hands, I was able to control the
 >>fluid bed motion just fine by tilting to different angles.  I
 >>almost felt like I was doing something (roasting?) rather than
 >>just watching beans go around and around if you know what I mean.
 >>This batch got the most attention I've ever given.
 >>
 >>In short, the more love that goes into a roast might translate
 >>into more love in return in the cup.  This new procedure may be my
 >>"happy medium" between wok roasting and using a convenience appliance,
 >>at least for a while anyway.  I'm in no rush to become a uber roaster,
 >>and the journey is more than half the fun and reward anyway.
 >>
 >>Happy Roasting!
 >>
 >>Allen
 >>am
 >>"Only your Barista knows for sure!"
 >>
 >>
 >

41) From: Wandering John
And I AM an Abbot(t) and I do Monkey around but totally not evolved!  
On Sunday 09 May 2004 05:37 pm, Allen Marsalis wrote:
<Snip>

42) From: John Blumel
On May 9, 2004, at 6:37pm, Allen Marsalis wrote:
<Snip>
It sounds as though you have reached the stage of Catching the Bean, 
according to the steps laid out in the 10 Beans by Kafuan. The next 
step is Taming the Bean, which is what most of us are working on. 
Hopefully, the whip and rope will not be necessary but they usually 
are.
John Blumel

43) From: Robert Cantor
<Snip>
HeyyyAbo-otttttttt!
(before my time, too, but still appropriate.)
Bob C.
rcantor

44) From: Allen Marsalis
At 07:34 PM 5/9/2004 -0400, John Blumel wrote:
 >
 >It sounds as though you have reached the stage of Catching the Bean,
 >according to the steps laid out in the 10 Beans by Kafuan.http://www.google.com/search?q=Kafuan+beansMy cup is empty.  Can you help enlighten a brother?  :)
 >The next
 >step is Taming the Bean, which is what most of us are working on.
 >Hopefully, the whip and rope will not be necessary but they usually
 >are.
 >
Nodding, tame the bean so later on, the bean can tame you!
yen yang..  
Allen
am

45) From: Allen Marsalis
At 04:27 PM 5/7/2004 -0700, Lesley Albjerg wrote:
<Snip>
Thanks for the reply Les.
Currently I use a Solis Maestro (the old one not the plus.)
I looked at the Mazzer Mini but it is too tall to fit under my
cabinets!  :(  So much for the "mini" part...
The sound of the Maestro motor is not inspiring as it chugs
along, however it does seem to do a fairly consistent job, that
is, until I change my blend to something new.  I figure I'll
upgrade someday and keep the Maestro as a spare or use it for
drip.  But my next project is definitely to PID my Sylvia.
I've been "temp surfing" for a year now, and it will feel
very weird to abandon my old habits and techniques!  But it
will be nice to be able to take a phone call or run to the
bathroom in the middle of my routine without screwing up my
cycle..
<Snip>
Yes, I had no idea that within the home roasting community, that
opinions, techniques, and people were so varied.  I like that!
I figured the concepts of "right and wrong" would be more defined.
Like "NEVER pull shots right after a fresh roast cools down"..
Stuff like that, but not so.  It's more like "Try it and see!
(then let us know how it went)"  How else are great discoveries
born?  You people have really stimulated my thinking.  I have
some Mesquite and Oak coals in my garage and just as soon as I
get my hands on a cheap wok, I'm sure I'll be back for some tips.
:)
Allen
am

46) From: John Blumel
On May 9, 2004, at 9:42pm, Allen Marsalis wrote:
<Snip>
Kafuan is the lesser known brother of Kakuan. Just substitute 'bean' 
wherever you encounter the word 'bull':
   http://www.google.com/search?q=Kakuan+bullsJohn Blumel

47) From: Allen Marsalis
At 10:33 PM 5/9/2004 -0400, John Blumel wrote:
 >On May 9, 2004, at 9:42pm, Allen Marsalis wrote:
 >
 >> >It sounds as though you have reached the stage of Catching the Bean,
 >> >according to the steps laid out in the 10 Beans by Kafuan.
 >>
 >>http://www.google.com/search?q=Kafuan+beans >> My cup is empty.  Can you help enlighten a brother?  :)
 >
 >Kafuan is the lesser known brother of Kakuan. Just substitute 'bean'
 >wherever you encounter the word 'bull':
 >
 >   http://www.google.com/search?q=Kakuan+bulls >
 >
Ahhh, thanks John!  I roast both ya know! (steaks and coffee beans)
In fact, one helps me to digest the other afterwards.  I wonder
what that means?  LOL..
Allen
am

48) From: Gene Smith
<Snip>
I'll be interested to see if anybody on this list gets past 'Both Bean &
Self Transcended,' John...
Gene Smith
riding the wild learning curve, in Houston

49) From: Ben Treichel
Wandering John wrote:
<Snip>
I didn't know you like Monkey! I thought you were a central type of guy.
I don't know, maybe I'm just bananas
<Snip>
-- 
Ben Treichel
Program Manager
S.E Michigan
SwRI
248-232-7365 (o)
248-935-6845 (m)

50) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
On May 9, 2004, at 9:33 PM, Allen Marsalis wrote:
<Snip>
Allen,
     I tried Mesquite once, the beans tasted like salt had been added.   
It was one of only three roasts that I just threw away after trying one 
taste.   I simply burned the other two.
      Jim Gundlach
      Roasting in a wok with heat gun
      and over pecan wood fires
      in La Place, Alabama.

51) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
<Snip>
Just a second note, you do not want a cheap wok to roast in.  Thin 
metal makes for some very hot spots that scorch the beans.
       Jim Gundlach

52) From: Jeff Wikstrom
Do you use a wok over a fire?  Or is that just for the heat gun?  Les has
been talking to me about using some wire mesh basket that's for roasting
popcorn over a fire.  I'm interested.  I was thinking about using a little
table top weber to do the fire in.
Jeff

53) From: Allen Marsalis
At 09:05 AM 5/10/2004 -0500, Pecan Jim Gundlach wrote:
 >
 >Allen,
 >     I tried Mesquite once, the beans tasted like salt had been added.
 >It was one of only three roasts that I just threw away after trying one
 >taste.   I simply burned the other two.
 >
Thanks Jim, I definitely won't try using 100% Mesquite if that
is the case.  I even order my margarita's minus salt.
I do keep a collection of different natural charcoal for
grilling/smoking.  I don't like using just straight "briquettes"
from the grocery store.  My favorite is called "Ozark Oaks
Natural Hardwood Charcoal".  I'll try that.  But I need a wok
first!  I used to have a heat gun for "heat shrink tubing"
but I'll have to find it..
Allen
am

54) From: Allen Marsalis
At 09:10 AM 5/10/2004 -0500, Pecan Jim Gundlach wrote:
 >>
 >Just a second note, you do not want a cheap wok to roast in.  Thin
 >metal makes for some very hot spots that scorch the beans.
 >
Jim, thanks for pointing this out.  This makes sense.  I have
some thick and thin pans for cooking and the same thing happens.
I never use my thin pan for frying an egg or I'll scorch it..
Perhaps SM could carry a suitable wok or two for roasting.
A Wok Roasting FAQ would also be nice.  I mean there are lots
of coffee FAQ's but I don't find one just for wok roasting.
Allen
am

55) From: Peter Barnes
There is plenty of information available about roasting in a wok.  Jim's 
guide comes up #1.http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ieF-8&oeF-8&q=wok+roasting&btnG=Google+Searchhttp://tinyurl.com/2he66 (the shorter version of above)
Allen Marsalis wrote:
<Snip>

56) From: Pecan Jim Gundlach
Allen,
     Using a wok over a wood fire will not give you the smoke flavor to 
the beans.   I have used a wok and a frying pan over wood fires but 
that is just to use the fire for heat, not flavor.   When I want to 
flavor the beans, I use an open mesh container such as an old Androck 
over the fire popcorn popper or a home made drum that works like Ron 
Kyles.  As an aside, I must have looked for more than a year before I 
found my heat gun after the discussion of dog bowl roasting.  I really 
like the control I get using a gas fire on relatively low supplemented 
by the heat gun for wok roasting.
      Jim Gundlach
On May 10, 2004, at 10:31 AM, Allen Marsalis wrote:
<Snip>

57) From: pcevoli
Hi Folks,
I've been having fun with my Cafe Rosto. I ordered a sampler pack from Sweet Marias but honestly how do you deal with all the different kinds of coffee beans? 70+ C'mon, I have anotebook and just scribble down info each time I try new coffee but I am overwhelmed, any ideas on how to make sense of all this info?
Thanks,
Paul

58) From: Brett Mason
Hi Paul,
Welcome to the terrific world of Home Roasting...
I did the 8-pack too.  I knew my descriptions were not as careful as
the more experienced roasters here, and my tasting wasn't nearly as
refined, but I had to start somewhere.  I did 1 kind of bean at a time
til the pack was empty.  I made a few pots, espresso, etc., and then
wrote notes on the label on the bag.  I also gave each bag a school
grade, like A, B- or A++.  Finally I bought a couple pounds of each of
my favorites to roast more, and try more.
For my "Christmas Blend", I scoured these lists and watched what
people raved about.  I then bought 10lb each of Indian Mysore, Uganda
Bugisu, Colombian (forget which), and Brazil Mogiana.  I roasted a
pound of each, and rested separately.  I began some blending mixes on
a pot-by-pot basis till I arrived at what I have now begun roasting
and delivering for Christmas.  I roasted 8lb yesterday using my
skillet and barbeque sideburner (took 3 loads to accomplish).
Finally, I bought 25lb of Colombian Narino as a staple coffee - it's
one I really like, its the basis of every coffee I roast to sell, and
it funds my smaller exploratory purchases...
There are probably a hundred different approaches, but this is how I
pursued mine...
Enjoy the hunt!
Brett
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 15:47:36 +0000, pcevoli
 wrote:
<Snip>

59) From: Ken Mary
<Snip>
all this info?
Record everything that happens during the roast and brewing so you can make
sense of it later when you have more experience. There are some generalities
with respect to country of origin and growing region, but the flavors will
differ slightly from farm to farm, early to late harvest, and year to year
depending on weather and other unknown factors. So do not get "intimate"
with any bean. Read everything you can from the SM website and browse the
archives.
Learn to roast with different methods. Each may tell you something new about
a particular bean or roasting in general.
--

60) From: Brent - SC/TO Roasting
DJ Garcia created a terrific database for keeping track of stuff.  I've been
using it for 5 months and really like it.  Even though beans come and go,
it's handy when Tom or someone else says "this new bean is just like".  You can keep track of your stash, roasting profiles,
flavors, etc.  Here's the link to his site and you can download the program
from there.
 http://improbablystructuredlayers.net/CoffeeRoastingDB/CRDBHome.htmIt is an MS Access program.  
Brent
Roasting in an SC/TO
For drip, moka, and presspot brew
<Snip>

61) From: Sheila Quinn
Hello all!
I've only been roasting for a couple of weeks now, starting off with the 
heat gun method. I made a couple of very small batches on the stovetop 
last night (small wok method) and was wondering... do my batches roasted 
in this manner require a couple of days to rest, just like the hot air 
methods? Or do stovetop methods require less time for degassing, similar 
to drum roasting?
Thanks!
Sheila

62) From: Les
Degassing takes the same amount of time no matter the roasting method.
Les
On 1/6/06, Sheila Quinn  wrote:
<Snip>
ribes) go tohttp://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

63) From: Michael Dhabolt
Sheila,
I'm not an accomplished HGDB style roaster, but my read on the rest
time required is: go by your taste - pull a shot or make a pot after
one day and do it every day afterward for a while, make the decision
based on your own attitude about the taste of what you brew.  The
difference in taste over time is sometimes subtle and sometimes it
slaps you in the face.  Different coffees - different rest times.  My
own rest times probably fall into the three to four day range more
often than not.  Every once in a while I am surprised and thankful
that I check roasts at other rest periods.
Mike (just plain)

64) From: Rodney Stanton
Sheila,
   While what Les is stating is correct, degassing
does take the same amount of time, I think your
question needs a bigger answer. I am only a newb
myself.. so here goes. (Whee!)
Degassing and rest are seperate.  Degassing is the
release of CO2 due to the chemical changes during
roasting.
Resting is the continuation of chemical changes change
the flavor of a bean.
While they run concurrent, I think they are seperate. 
My wife likes some of our Indonesians with up to a 4
day rest and I am certain degassing is minimal after
day 1.
Some would correlate rest time inversly proportional
to roast time.  With this axiom fast methods, like my
Whirley Pop, would need a longer rest.
Rodney
who wouldn't be too hurt if he was entirely wrong.
--- Les  wrote:
<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>">http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>http://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast<Snip>http://sweetmarias.com/maillistinfo.html#personalsettings<Snip>

65) From: mIke mcKoffee
<Snip>
Generally speaking I'd agree with that. Also the lighter the roast is
inversely proportional to rest time, lighter roasts benefiting more from
longer.
I remember a few years ago some were Raving and others Ranting about the CR
La Minita. Most of the Rants went away when they gave it 3 to 4 day rest.
(As well as keeping it out of 2nd)
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
www.MDMProperties.net

66) From: hammock
I recently leapt into the coffee abyss. I bought a Gaggia Cerezza this summer. I have added a rocky grinder (want to upgrade to silvia later) and Z&D home roaster. I wanted to write to find out where I should start in coffee selection. I have been using the green beans provided with the Z&D roaster but have heard that they are stale beans. I recently order a sampler pack from SM and it should be here shortly. 
I bought the Z&D because of the smoke-reduction since I live in an apartment. I have roasted the Z&D provided beans have been fairly happy with the results. The strange thing is, though, that was little to no chaff after the roast. My beans look different from the roast photos for the Z&D as shown on SM. 
Any direction would be great. I went to Italy 5 years ago and had wonderful coffee. It was amazing! I would love to have that at home. I have always brewed (regular coffee machine) cheap beans. My idea of a splurge was using the Foldgers Whole Bean Coffee. Go ahead laugh, I deserve it. All I am asking is where to start.
I have become obsessed with crema and would love to make an espresso that has loads of it. So far the most I have had was about 1/8 inch of crema. 
Once again, any help would be greatly appreciated.
Derek

67) From: Brett Mason
Can you provide a link with pictures of your roast?  We can make snide
and useful comments better if we can see what you arrived at.  I do
wonder whether yuo didn't take the roast long enough or were hot
enough....
Brett
On 8/23/06, hammock  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Regards,
Brett Mason
 HomeRoast
   Zassman

68) From: Steven Sobel
Derek,
Welcome.  You are entering a very exciting area.  Fresh coffee is very
addictive.
I can't vouch for the quality of bean from Z&D but I would strongly suggest
reading Tom's comments at SM.  I have been buying beans from him for the
past 6 months and only regret that I haven't started sooner.  I find that I
appreciate the whole assortment of coffees that are available and enjoy
trying a different type of bean.
The best advice I can give re roasting is to do it, do it and do it.  I find
that the more I roast, the more comfortable I am roasting and more willing I
am to try different roasts, etc.  To me, I don't worry about timing my
roast, rather I rely on the smell and sight of the roast.  In my opinion,
almost any home roast is better than a store roast.  Simply enjoy the
process.
If you get a chance, Tom has some excellent pictures on the SM web site,http://www.sweetmarias.com/roasting-VisualGuideV2.htmlthat I constantly
refer to re the degree of roast.
Also, never be afraid to make a mistake.  That is how all of us learn.
Steve
On 8/23/06, hammock  wrote:
<Snip>

69) From: Bob Brashear
Steven Sobel wrote:
<Snip>
Derek,
Have to second Steve there. I haven't had this much fun in a LONG time. 
Sweet Maria's is the place to go for info, beans, equipment, service, 
warm fuzzies, ...
Bob

70) From: TERRY TITSWORTH
Welcome to the List...Somewhat 'New' myself. To the list that is...
I am Using an I-Roast-2, so can't help you with your Z&D...not doing
espresso's YET...so can't help there..Probably should have stopped at
"Hi"...
Oh, buy the weigh...ou.edu....as in Sooner or Buckeye?
TerryT at RAE
On 8/23/06, hammock  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Start HOT and work your way Down...
Peppers AND Coffee.
[|:{O....[|:{U...

71) From: Eddie Dove
Derek,
Welcome to the list ... I am somewhat new myself and this is a great bunch
of folks.
I am not doing espressos just yet, but I do have a Zach & Dani's roaster
that I like very much!  I only hope that I can somehow be of help.
Respectfully,
Eddie
On 8/23/06, hammock  wrote:
<Snip>

72) From: Barry Luterman
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Lack of chaff and color of beans might be due to the poor quality of =
beans packed in with the Z&D. Try the SM beans you should see a marked =
improvement. Welcome to the list.The adventure begins

73) From: Derek Hammock
Sooner all the way. If you are a buckeye, I will be rooting for Ohio 
when buckeyes play Texas. If you are a Sooner, you understand what I mean.
Derek
 >Welcome to the List...Somewhat 'New' myself. To the list that is...
 >I am Using an I-Roast-2, so can't help you with your Z&D...not doing 
espresso's YET...so can't help there..Probably should have stopped at 
"Hi"...
 > 
 >Oh, buy the weigh...ou.edu....as in Sooner or Buckeye?
 > 
 >TerryT at RAE

74) From: Les
He could have been a Duck! if it was uo!  Derek how about a 1/2 pound
of homeroast on the game on September 16th.  Sooners win I send you
half pound, Ducks win, you send me a half pound of one of your
favorites.  Homeroasted by the loser of course!
Les
70 miles south of Autzen Stadium home of the Oregon Ducks
P.S. I went to the University of Minnesota so I am a Buckeye fan a quite often.
On 8/23/06, Derek Hammock  wrote:
<Snip>

75) From: TERRY TITSWORTH
Simple answer....BOOMER.....
Glad to see another "Okie" on the list. Beginning to think I was a Solo
Sooner.
Oh, and Les....IF the 'ou.edu' had been dripping with liquid sunshine I
would have known it was from a Duck...
On 8/23/06, Derek Hammock  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Start HOT and work your way Down...
Peppers AND Coffee.
[|:{O....[|:{U...

76) From: John David Huddle
Derek
THE Ohio State Unversity is osu.edu.    Ohio University is ohio.edu.
Although I grew up in Texas, I'll be rooting for Ohio State on Sept. 9.   
I've worked within sight of the Buckeye's home stadium for 35 years and 24 
days.
We here in Columbus will appreciate the Sooner support on Sept. 9.
Dave -   Westerville, OH
------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 20:15:22 -0500
From: Derek Hammock 
To: homeroast
Subject: Re: +newbie question
Reply-To: homeroast
Sooner all the way. If you are a buckeye, I will be rooting for Ohio
when buckeyes play Texas. If you are a Sooner, you understand what I mean.
Derek
 >Welcome to the List...Somewhat 'New' myself. To the list that is...
 >I am Using an I-Roast-2, so can't help you with your Z&D...not doing
espresso's YET...so can't help there..Probably should have stopped at
"Hi"...
 >
 >Oh, buy the weigh...ou.edu....as in Sooner or Buckeye?
 >
 >TerryT at RAE

77) From: TERRY TITSWORTH
O.K., now how is this going to work? OU roots for OSU, but not OUR OSU, then
we back OSU against TU (But not for OUR OSU and not Tulsa U) and you root
for OU against OU, which is Oklahoma not Oregon, but if OU (Oregon) plays
OSU (Oklahoma State) will you root for OU or OSU?
O.K...O.K... to Simplify root for OU...not OSU...Unless your with OSU (Ohio
State not Oklahoma State)
Well at least I'm not into the UC issue...
TerryT
P.S....how do you mark this as OT...
On 8/24/06, John David Huddle  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Start HOT and work your way Down...
Peppers AND Coffee.
[|:{O....[|:{U...

78) From: Kit Anderson
UT! OSU... FU!
Kit
UT '86
TERRY TITSWORTH wrote:
<Snip>

79) From: Michael Wascher
Would that be Fordam University or Floridat University?
On 8/24/06, Kit Anderson  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
"There is nothing new under the sun but there are lots of old things we
don't know." --  Ambrose Bierce

80) From: Justin Marquez
On 8/24/06, Michael Wascher  wrote:
<Snip>
Oscar: "It was an hour before I figured out that 'FU" meant 'Felix Unger'!"
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)

81) From: TERRY TITSWORTH
That was Good...Felix Unger...Now that's Odd...
Terryt
On 8/24/06, Justin Marquez  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Start HOT and work your way Down...
Peppers AND Coffee.
[|:{O....[|:{U...

82) From: David Schooley
My heroes have always been Cowboys.
I have an uncle who went to OU, and a cousin there now, so I'll try  
to be nice.
Go Pokes!!!
On Aug 24, 2006, at 11:56 AM, John David Huddle wrote:
<Snip>

83) From:
Derek:
welcome, welcome...
I will tell you that you cannot go wrong buying an 8 pack selection from Tom and Maria.
Buy a couple...
regards,
ginny
---- hammock wrote: 
<Snip>

84) From: Tara Kollas
I second Ginny's rec - I still buy the sampler packs because I always get
something I wouldn't have thought to order - half the time I end up ordering
more.
On 8/27/06, pchforever  wrote:
<Snip>

85) From: Eddie Dove
Third on the 8-Pack Sampler!  It may get you to experience and enjoy coffees
you would otherwise not choose based solely on the descriptions.  Besides
... it like waiting to get presents in the mail!
Can't remember ... does Harvey deliver samplers too?
Eddie
On 8/30/06, Tara Kollas  wrote:
<Snip>

86) From: Justin Marquez
On 8/30/06, Eddie Dove  wrote:
<Snip>
You betcha Harvey delivers sampler paks, too. If you get the 1# packs,
that loads up ol' Harvey somewhat but the 1/2# packs leave him with a
lot of additional room.  So... you may want to add in a little more
coffee so that he's economically feasible.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (Snyder, TX)

87) From: Brian Kamnetz
Make sure you get the 8-pound sampler, rather than the 4-pound
sampler. You really need, IMHO, at least a full pound of coffee to
have enough to experiment with different roasts, rests, brewing
methods,etc.
Harvey will deliver any combination of green beans up to a maximum of 12 pounds.
Brian
On 8/30/06, Eddie Dove  wrote:
<Snip>

88) From: Eddie Dove
Second the 8-Pound Sampler!
Eddie
On 8/30/06, Brian Kamnetz  wrote:
<Snip>

89) From: Renee Perry
How does the heat gun/dog dish setup work?  I'm pretty happy with my 
FR8, but would like the option of doing larger batches.
Renee

90) From: miKe mcKoffee
Here's a HG/DB how to:http://www.homeroaster.com/heatgun.htmlKona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>

91) From: Justin Marquez
On 11/5/06, Renee Perry  wrote:
<Snip>
You betcha it works!
You can get a 1200 watt Wagner heat gun at your local hardware store
for about $30 which works very well. I use an 8" wire strainer from
Walmart which is sorta round and had a handle as well as a couple of
"tabs" or "ears" on the rim which allow you to sit it down in a
stainless steel salad bowl so that you don't have to support it AND it
is real easy to pick up when roasting is completed. I bought
everything new a couple of years ago and I am still using it, although
now that we are no longer full-time in our RV, my RK Drum is running
again. I spent about $44 on everything including:
     - 1200 Watt Wagner heat gun
     - round wire strainer
     - Cheap stainless steel salad bowl.
     - wooden stir spoons
     - a "baker's friend" loaf pan (used to pour back and forth for cooling)
It takes me about 8 to 12 minutes to roast 1.5 cups of green coffee beans.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

92) From: Julie Tieszen
I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what or who is .....Harvey?
=
Julie  :)
----- Original Message ----
From: Tara Kollas 
To: homeroast
Sent: Monday, Novemb=
er 27, 2006 11:20:48 PM
Subject: Re: +New Coffees Coming!
Finally pu=
t in a long overdue order for more greens.  Decided to try the El Salvador =
Cup of Excellence #2 - Los Planes
, 'cause I couldn't resist a coffee tha=
t had the word marzipan in the description.  And a few others - as usual, I=
 bought an 8 pound sampler to try something I wouldn't have picked for myse=
lf.  I swear, half the time I get coffee that I like more than what I selec=
ted myself.  Torn about getting a falling dog shirt, but I wanted to take a=
dvantage of Harvey too much!
On 11/16/06, Les  wrote:
Wow,
More temptations!  I have never had a Congo bef=
ore.  Temptation Temptation Temptation!!!
 
Les
Trying to fo=
llow the 12 step program.
 
On 11/16/06, Jim  wrote: 
The weblog -http://www.sweetmarias.com/weblog=/?p=21 says that new coffees should be posted today! 
 
=

93) From: Eddie Dove
Julie,
If we have not already done so, Welcome to the List!
Harvey is a Priority Mail shipping option that Tom made available and
disclosed to this list.  There is no tracking, but for $9.00 up to 12 pounds
of coffee and the associated cloth bags can arrive at your door fairly
quickly.
Tom's original email is below (the $8.50 is now $9.00):
Hope this helps ...
Eddie
--------
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee 
Date: Jan 24, 2005 1:46 PM
Subject: +"Hold for Harvey" aka USPS Flat Rate Box
To: homeroast list 
Okay folks, this whole USPS Flat Rate Box has ruined my life. I spent
much of last week and the weekend too trying to figure out a way we
can offer it. It doesn't work. We simply can't offer what needs to be
a volume-based shipping calculation alongside a weight-based
calculation at this time.
So here is our fix ... a temporary "band-aid" approach.
First, I am only telling the list about this right now. It's an
"insider deal" at this point. If it works I will add an page with the
explaination and  "terms and conditions" listed below. Unfortunately,
if it doesn't work out for us, we are going to have to pull it.
The main way this is going to fail is if 1. customers choose it when
they are not eligible, that is, when they are buying something other
than green coffee, and more than 12 Lbs. and 2. when in generates
excessive emails for Maria and Derek and me, with people asking for
exceptions, additions, special circumstances.
Okay, here's the low-tech fix: Buy up to 12 lbs of green coffee ...
it can be 5 Lbs, it can be 8, it can be 10, whatever, but NEVER more
than 12 Lbs. It cannot be any other product except our cloth logo
bags matching the amounts of coffee purchased.
When you check out, chose the purposefully cryptic shipping option
:"Customer Pick Up - Hold for Harvey ($8.50)" We had to make the
option unattractive to those who don't know what it is, who haven't
read this email.
Why Harvey? Well, here's our USPS guy! Why $8.50? We have to add .80
for our USPS pickup fees and packing supplies.
Oh, duh ... this is only good for the U.S. and will work for Alaska,
Hawaii, PR, and FPO/APO too.
Remember, everything bad about the USPS still applies here- spotty
tracking, no insurance currently offered, occasional lost packages,
2-3 days is NOT a guarantee AT ALL - I get some Priority Mails in 2
days, some in 5 ... I have had ones that took 2 weeks!!! Nomatter
what you think about UPS, it's trackable, always insured up to $100,
and about 99% on time according to their time in transit map. If I
lived a few states away and UPS was a couple bucks more, I would
choose UPS personally!
SO this is out beta run of this, and I really hope it works. In a few
months I hope there will be a software upgrade for our system that
will implement it in a better way. Anyone who understands the rules
can try this out. I really hope this saves some money, and doesn't
create headaches for you all or for us.
Tom

94) From: Julie Tieszen
Thanks Eddie and Dennis,
That will save me a few dollars as I live in =
VA!
Julie
----- Original Message ----
From: Eddie Dove 
To: homeroast
Sent: T=
uesday, November 28, 2006 9:08:29 AM
Subject: Re: +Newbie question
J=
ulie, 
If we have not already done so, Welcome to the List!
Harve=
y is a Priority Mail shipping option that Tom made available and disclosed =
to this list.  There is no tracking, but for $9.00 up to 12 pounds of coffe=
e and the associated cloth bags can arrive at your door fairly quickly.  =
Tom's original email is below (the $8.50 is now $9.00):
Hope =
this helps ...
Eddie
--------
---------- Forwarded message -=
---------
From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee <
tom=
m>
Date: Jan 24, 2005 1:46 PM
Subject: +"Hold for Harvey" aka USPS Flat=
 Rate Box
To: homeroast list <
homeroast>
=
Okay folks, this whole USPS Flat Rate Box has ruined my life. I spent
=
much of last week and the weekend too trying to figure out a way we
can o=
ffer it. It doesn't work. We simply can't offer what needs to be
a vol=
ume-based shipping calculation alongside a weight-based
calculation at th=
is time.
So here is our fix ... a temporary "band-aid" approach.
=
First, I am only telling the list about this right now. It's an
"insid=
er deal" at this point. If it works I will add an page with the
explainat=
ion and  "terms and conditions" listed below. Unfortunately,
if it doesn'=
t work out for us, we are going to have to pull it.
The main way th=
is is going to fail is if 1. customers choose it when
they are not eligib=
le, that is, when they are buying something other
than green coffee, and =
more than 12 Lbs. and 2. when in generates
excessive emails for Maria =
and Derek and me, with people asking for
exceptions, additions, special c=
ircumstances.
Okay, here's the low-tech fix: Buy up to 12 lbs of green=
 coffee ...
it can be 5 Lbs, it can be 8, it can be 10, whatever, but NEV=
ER more
than 12 Lbs. It cannot be any other product except our cloth l=
ogo
bags matching the amounts of coffee purchased.
When you check ou=
t, chose the purposefully cryptic shipping option
:"Customer Pick Up - Ho=
ld for Harvey ($8.50)" We had to make the
option unattractive to those=
 who don't know what it is, who haven't
read this email.
Why Harvey?=
 Well, here's our USPS guy! Why $8.50? We have to add .80
for our USPS pi=
ckup fees and packing supplies.
Oh, duh ... this is only good for t=
he U.S. and will work for Alaska,
Hawaii, PR, and FPO/APO too.
Remem=
ber, everything bad about the USPS still applies here- spotty
tracking, n=
o insurance currently offered, occasional lost packages,
2-3 days is N=
OT a guarantee AT ALL - I get some Priority Mails in 2
days, some in 5 ..=
. I have had ones that took 2 weeks!!! Nomatter
what you think about UPS,=
 it's trackable, always insured up to $100,
and about 99% on time accordi=
ng to their time in transit map. If I
lived a few states away and UPS =
was a couple bucks more, I would
choose UPS personally!
SO this is o=
ut beta run of this, and I really hope it works. In a few
months I hope t=
here will be a software upgrade for our system that
will implement it =
in a better way. Anyone who understands the rules
can try this out. I rea=
lly hope this saves some money, and doesn't
create headaches for you all =
or for us.
Tom

95) From: Eddie Dove
Julie,
No guarantees, but Harvey usually makes it to the South Coast (Mississippi)
in 2-3 days.  I think he usually makes it to VA in 3-5 days.
My folks live in Exmore, Virginia ... Bay side of the peninsula on the
Nassawadox River.
Eddie
On 11/28/06, Julie Tieszen  wrote:
<Snip>

96) From: Kevin
Rain, Sleet, or Snow, nothing stops Harvey!
Welcome to the list!
**just finished the pot of Nic. El Cipres CoE 3 and max BCC (blood caffeine
content) reached ** ..the worst part of my day...(I have it pretty good
then!)
-- 
Kevin
"I got a fever and the only prescription... is more cowbell"
  -The legendary Bruce Dickinsonhttp://www.funnyhub.com/videos/pages/snl-more-cowbell.html

97) From: Justin Marquez
On 11/28/06, Julie Tieszen  wrote:
<Snip>
Most of us have had good results with the "Harvey" option. I have
ordered probably 7-10 times with it and only once was there an issue.
Last time the box had a hole poked in it and about a 1/4# of some
really nice beans had spilled out in transit.
Very occasionally people have reported the dreaded "USPS (or UPS)
blend" wherein more than one bag opens up in transit and mixing occurs
in the closed box.  I have not had that happen yet.
Safe Journeys and Sweet Music
Justin Marquez (CYPRESS, TX)

98) From: Julie Tieszen
OK, now that I'm being welcomed so kindly, I have a few more questions....=
I'm roasting with a poppery II. I've only been doing this a month or =
so. I'm learning from this list that poppers tend to roast too quickly. Can=
 I slow the roast down by leaving off the cover and stirrring the beans qui=
te a bit in the beginning? Any tips on using the popper (without hardware m=
odifications) would be appreciated. A better roaster is not an option right=
 now.
Also, is roasting decaf beans different that reg beans. Both bat=
chs of my decaf seemed to have gotten way too dark for me and I didn't seem=
 to hear the 2nd  crack at all. I usually try to stop the roast at the firs=
t sounds of 2nd crack.
Thanks!
Julie
----- Original Message ---=
-
From: Kevin 
To: homeroast=
m
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:33:10 AM
Subject: Re: +Newbie que=
stion
Rain, Sleet, or Snow, nothing stops Harvey!  
Welcome to th=
e list!  
**just finished the pot of Nic. El Cipres CoE 3 and max BCC =
(blood caffeine content) reached ** ..the worst part of my day...(I have it=
 pretty good then!)
-- 
Kevin
"I got a fever and the only pr=
escription... is more cowbell"
  -The legendary Bruce Dickinsonhttp://=www.funnyhub.com/videos/pages/snl-more-cowbell.html

99) From: Eddie Dove
Marc
U.S. only is my understanding ... that's what was in Tom's original email.
Eddie
On 11/28/06, Marc Dupuis  wrote:
<Snip>
ep
<Snip> homeroast mailing list
<Snip>

100) From: Jon Rosen
--Apple-Mail-2--405432902
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset-ASCII;
	delsp=yes;
	format=flowed
And I thought it was being delivered by an invisible rabbit...  
Apologies to anyone who hasn't seen the Jimmy Stewart movie.
Jon
On Nov 28, 2006, at 9:08 AM, Eddie Dove wrote:
<Snip>
--Apple-Mail-2--405432902
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charsetO-8859-1
And I thought it was being =
delivered by an invisible rabbit... Apologies to anyone who hasn't seen =
the Jimmy Stewart movie.
Jon O= n Nov 28, 2006, at 9:08 AM, Eddie Dove wrote:
Julie, = If we have not already done so, Welcome to the = List! Harvey is a Priority Mail shipping option that Tom made = available and disclosed to this list.  There is no tracking, but for = $9.00 up to 12 pounds of coffee and the associated cloth bags can arrive = at your door fairly quickly.  Tom's original email is below = (the $8.50 is now $9.00): Hope this helps = ... Eddie -------- ---------- Forwarded message = ---------- From: Tom & Maria - Sweet Maria's Coffee < = tom> Date: Jan 24, 2005 1:46 PM Subject: = +"Hold for Harvey" aka USPS Flat Rate Box To: homeroast list < = homeroast> Okay folks, this = whole USPS Flat Rate Box has ruined my life. I spent much of last = week and the weekend too trying to figure out a way we can offer it. = It doesn't work. We simply can't offer what needs to be a = volume-based shipping calculation alongside a = weight-based calculation at this time. So here is our fix ... = a temporary "band-aid" approach. First, I am only telling the = list about this right now. It's an "insider deal" at this point. If = it works I will add an page with the explaination and  "terms and = conditions" listed below. Unfortunately, if it doesn't work out for = us, we are going to have to pull it. The main way this is going = to fail is if 1. customers choose it when they are not eligible, that = is, when they are buying something other than green coffee, and more = than 12 Lbs. and 2. when in generates excessive emails for Maria and = Derek and me, with people asking for exceptions, additions, special = circumstances. Okay, here's the low-tech fix: Buy up to 12 lbs of = green coffee ... it can be 5 Lbs, it can be 8, it can be 10, = whatever, but NEVER more than 12 Lbs. It cannot be any other product = except our cloth logo bags matching the amounts of coffee = purchased. When you check out, chose the purposefully cryptic = shipping option :"Customer Pick Up - Hold for Harvey ($8.50)" We had = to make the option unattractive to those who don't know what it is, = who haven't read this email. Why Harvey? Well, here's our USPS = guy! Why $8.50? We have to add .80 for our USPS pickup fees and = packing supplies. Oh, duh ... this is only good for the U.S. and = will work for Alaska, Hawaii, PR, and FPO/APO too. Remember, = everything bad about the USPS still applies here- spotty tracking, no = insurance currently offered, occasional lost packages, 2-3 days is = NOT a guarantee AT ALL - I get some Priority Mails in 2 days, some in = 5 ... I have had ones that took 2 weeks!!! Nomatter what you think = about UPS, it's trackable, always insured up to $100, and about 99% = on time according to their time in transit map. If I lived a few = states away and UPS was a couple bucks more, I would choose UPS = personally! SO this is out beta run of this, and I really hope it = works. In a few months I hope there will be a software upgrade for = our system that will implement it in a better way. Anyone who = understands the rules can try this out. I really hope this saves some = money, and doesn't create headaches for you all or for = us. Tom = --Apple-Mail-2--405432902--

101) From: Vicki Smith
Nope, he doesn't. It does however seem that 20 ponds of coffee costs 
about the same as ten. I have stopped ordering airmail to Central 
Alberta, as the surface mail only takes about 10 working days.
It's not Harvey, but it's also not bad.
vicki
Marc Dupuis wrote:
<Snip>

102) From: Tom Ogren
Welcome aboard Julie,
Harvey is faster and cheaper. He makes it from Oakland to the Chesapeake Bay
(Williamsburg) in three days every time.
I started with and used a Poppery II until just a couple of months ago. I
received some great advice from the list when I started with the P2. I'll
collect some of those helpful hints and send them along to you this evening
(when I am not at work...). For starters it is important to know that the
speed of your roasts will be most affected by two factors:
1. ambient temperature - Cold air will slow your roasts so leaving the lid
off will have an effect on your roast times.
2. batch size - This one is counter-intuitive: The larger the batch size,
the faster your roast will progress.
As for stirring, you should not roast such a large batch that the machine
cannot circulate the beans on its own. Perhaps stirring for just four or
five seconds at the outset is OK (I often did just to get things started)
but if you need to stir longer than this, your batch is likely too large and
will race toward finish quicker than you want.
More later. Virginia Is For Roasters!
TO in VA
On 11/28/06, Julie Tieszen  wrote:
<Snip>

103) From: True, Dennis W. FC1 (CVN69)
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Not a stupid question at all we all ask it when we are new here! 
Harvey is code for Priorty Mail Tom ships up to 12 pounds of coffee and
bags only!!! for as flat rate.
Just FYI Harvey was the name of their mailman way back when. 
 
Hold for Harvey is a great way to get coffee shipped! 12 pounds at a
time (think 2 5# bags and 1 2# bag of coffee)
or just get the 8# sampler and 2# bag and 2# bag 
or 10# and 2# 
 
You get the idea!
 
Dennis 
AKA 
FC1(SW) Dennis W. True 
CS/CS-5 
USS Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) 
FPO AE 09532-2830 
Man of many hats! 
HG/DB and Z&D roasting in the Indian Ocean 
 "On station and on point 157 and counting down..." 
"Direct support for troops on the ground is only a call away in support
of Operation Eagle!"

104) From: Brian Kamnetz
Eddie,
Thanks for posting Tom's original "Harvey" email! I LOVE this email and
somehow managed to lose it.
Brian
On 11/28/06, Eddie Dove  wrote:
<Snip>

105) From: Tim Riley Esq.
I've just started roasting on my back porch, and picked up some  
excellent new Kenya beans... they roasted very evenly and taste great.
I'm trying to get them cooling before that "second" pop, and I think  
I'm succeeding. This batch throws off quite a bit of skin into the  
top, and I also noticed some in the beans, right in the center crack,  
as I went to grind them. I'm wondering if these skins should be  
separated out somehow before grinding, can they affect flavor? Also,  
another trick for my setup seems to be getting the measuring right  
into the filter, a little too much and it's not just dark it's really  
bitter. Adding a little water after that made it taste great.
Am I pointed in the right direction?
TImhttp://www.rileyrockindex.com

106) From: Brett Mason
Hi Tim,
Welcome!  The chaff shouldn't affect the taste one way or another...  With
your method, refinement is a matter of discipline.  What I mean is you need
to "control" the process if you'd like to improve it...  Here's some steps:
1.  Measure the amount of beans you roast, and try to make the amount
consistent, roast to roast.
2.  Time the roast - from beginning to 1st crack, length of 1st crack, and
then 1st crack to 2nd crack...
3.  Make sure beginning to 2nd crack isn't any longer than say 15 minutes -
if it is, you may need to consistently use more beans than that....
  -and-
     Make sure beginning to 2nd crack isn't shorter than 5 minutes - if so
you may have too many beans in the roaster
4.  Take notes of times, and temperature if you have an accurate thermometer
that can go into the roaster
5.  Compare your notes with your tasting, and then plan some adjustments...
This list can help you attenuate your roast...
Eventually you may end up roasting by feel/sound/smell - butr knowing where
you are is the best way to determine how to get to another place....
Brett
On 9/6/07, Tim Riley Esq.  wrote:
<Snip>
-- 
Cheers,
Bretthttp://homeroast.freeservers.com

107) From: Larry Dorman
<Snip>
That's the important part. :)
<Snip>
The skin you refer to is generally called chaff.  It doesn't seem to
have a meaningful effect on the coffee flavor in my experience.  I
have two large collanders and tend to dump the beans back and forth
between them in front of a small fan to blow off all of the large,
loose chaff.  Other than that, I don't obsess about it too much.  When
I grind I can see some mixed in the coffee, but again I've never
noticed it causing any problems.
LarryD

108) From: Eric Latham
I am new to the list and home roasting. I have been lurking for a couple of
weeks and thought I would step out of the shadow for a moment to thank
everyone for sharing their wisdom. It is helpful that I notice when newbies
have posted they get a warm reception. 
This whole home roasting thing came about in a very causal conversation with
Jose, a friend of a friend, at a backyard get together in West LA. He was
enthusiastic about it and said he found his weekly sessions with his HG/DB
relaxing. Two days later, I went to the local Whole Paycheck (Whole Foods)
to get some beans - they were willing to sell me the green beans for the
same price as roasted! Jose had told me about SM but I couldn't wait to have
beans shipped. Same day I went and picked up a heat gun and that evening was
roasting away. 
The first batch was so much better than anything I had ever had before. I
was hooked. Next day my SM sampler was on the way. Since then I have been
sampling different coffees from around the world. Early on, I roasted a
batch of Ethiopia Organic Sidamo DP Special Selection - this was the first
(and only) time that I got the flavors described on the label. I got that
through a cheap paper filter - I can't imagine how it would have tasted
through my new French Press. So, I know what is possible and strive to get
it again, in the meantime I get to enjoy some of the best cups of coffee. 
The other day I was describing the flavors of a cup to my wife and she got a
good laugh out of me describing the brightness and body, saying, "I never
thought you would be a connoisseur of anything." Well that is an
overstatement, were it not for spellcheck I couldn't even use the word.
Knowing that I will always need a good cup and enjoy the geekdom (I mean
that in the most complimentary way) of roasting my own that I will need to
upgrade to another method. After roasting, I have to take a shower and even
then cannot always get rid of the roast smell. When I went to the video
store the other day without a shower folks gave me odd looks as they moved
away. Anyway, I hope it was the roasted coffee smell.
The one question I have is the relative benefits of hot air/electric versus
gas fired methods. Hot air tends to dry things out more than gas, no? Does
that have an appreciable impact on the final flavor? 
Thanks
Eric
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109) From: Ira
At 10:52 AM 1/31/2009, you wrote:
<Snip>
Is the video store across from the Whole Foods?
Ira
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110) From: Joseph Robertson
Eric,
I feel that you can get just as good roasting results with hot air as
with gas fired drum roasters. A fellow professional roaster I know in
Portland Oregon uses a high end air bed roaster with great results.
You will find fans of both systems/schools. I have yet heard of any
test or anyone offering a roasting throw down so we can compare the
differences between the two systems in a coffee cupping scientific
manner. If anyone on this list has information on this please step up.
A primary challenge to this would be matching up two comparable
roasters that came close to similar production capability's.
When I spoke in length with Dan the fellow who roasts commercially for
many customers plus his own cafe's told me there has been and will
always be an on going debate as to which produces better and more
consistent results.
Personally I would love to have miKe or Les who both own very nice gas
drum roasters offer a "three round" throw down roast out to see if any
cupper could taste the difference. Sounds like great fun.
Now if you would like to simplify this test on your own keep testing
with your own system with Tom's greens and then order some drum
roasted beans from Tom and see if you can taste the differences.
There are a number of ways to test this question.
Eric,
Here is my very short answer....so far in my very limited experience I
have not been able to taste the difference in a blind test.
Have you miKe?
JoeR
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Eric Latham  wrote:
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111) From: james McDougal
Welcome Eric!
You will enjoy the list, I'm sure.
I got started in much the same way - casual converstation at a business
meeting. Watch out though - it's addictive!
A stove top popper was the initial approach for me in late August which was
good for about 35 roasts before I NEEDED a Behmor for Christmas (OK, a
little early) and I've roasted 45 batches in 6 weeks - almost 1 a day. Now
I'm looking forward to a top quality grinder, an aeropress, a vacuum pot and
a really good espresso machine. Gonna end up costing some buck$ !
So keep your hand on your heart and your wallet and enjoy!
Mac
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Eric Latham wrote:
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112) From: Joseph Robertson
Eric,
Of all things, please forgive me for not welcoming you to this great
list. I have made some wonderful coffee friends here.
JoeR
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Eric Latham  wrote:
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113) From: Skydragon454
Welcome to the list Eric! Man, your not joking about Whole (paycheck)  Foods. 
I am from their hometown in Austin,TX and if you fill up one shopping  cart 
full it will take a whole paycheck :P  That was mighty considerate of  them to 
part with substandard greens (compared with Toms...he has us all  spoiled) for 
the price of fresh roasted. I was, however , impressed with the  really cool 
super sized clear air roaster they use to roast with. It will almost  
hypnotize you when you stare at it. I wonder were they got it. Again, a warm  welcome 
to the list Eric
- Eric M.
 
In a message dated 2/2/2009 11:14:50 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
ericmlatham writes:
I am new  to the list and home roasting. I have been lurking for a couple of
weeks  and thought I would step out of the shadow for a moment to thank
everyone  for sharing their wisdom. It is helpful that I notice when newbies
have  posted they get a warm reception. 
This whole home roasting  thing came about in a very causal conversation with
Jose, a friend of a  friend, at a backyard get together in West LA. He was
enthusiastic about it  and said he found his weekly sessions with his HG/DB
relaxing. Two days  later, I went to the local Whole Paycheck (Whole Foods)
to get some beans -  they were willing to sell me the green beans for the
same price as roasted!  Jose had told me about SM but I couldn't wait to have
beans shipped. Same  day I went and picked up a heat gun and that evening was
roasting away.  
The first batch was so much better than anything I had ever  had before. I
was hooked. Next day my SM sampler was on the way. Since then  I have been
sampling different coffees from around the world. Early on, I  roasted a
batch of Ethiopia Organic Sidamo DP Special Selection - this was  the first
(and only) time that I got the flavors described on the label. I  got that
through a cheap paper filter - I can't imagine how it would have  tasted
through my new French Press. So, I know what is possible and strive  to get
it again, in the meantime I get to enjoy some of the best cups of  coffee. 
The other day I was describing the flavors of a cup to  my wife and she got a
good laugh out of me describing the brightness and  body, saying, "I never
thought you would be a connoisseur of anything."  Well that is an
overstatement, were it not for spellcheck I couldn't even  use the word.
Knowing that I will always need a good cup and  enjoy the geekdom (I mean
that in the most complimentary way) of roasting  my own that I will need to
upgrade to another method. After roasting, I  have to take a shower and even
then cannot always get rid of the roast  smell. When I went to the video
store the other day without a shower folks  gave me odd looks as they moved
away. Anyway, I hope it was the roasted  coffee smell.
The one question I have is the relative benefits  of hot air/electric versus
gas fired methods. Hot air tends to dry things  out more than gas, no? Does
that have an appreciable impact on the final  flavor?  
Thanks
Eric
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114) From: Bill
Eric,
welcome to the list!!  Hopefully you'll enjoy the journey.
In general, an air roaster gives a coffee with more acidity, less body.  And
a drum will give more body, perhaps more complexity, and diminished acidity.
and as joe pointed out, the argument will continue about what is best.
 perhaps you'll figure out what you like best!
again, welcome to the list.
bill in wyo
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115) From: Joseph Robertson
Bill,
Thanks for the detail. More than I could explain.
For homeroasting the choices are limited if your on a budget. Given
the present state of national affairs who isn't?
The Behmor is a nice transition to an electric drum. I'm sure the
profiles and end results are much different than the airpopers. Their
all fun to experiment with.
Joe
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116) From: Les
Welcome Eric,
I agree with Joe's answer in principle.  However, I can speak with
some experience of the Drum vs Air debate.  I learned to roast under
the tutelage of the guru of Air Roasters Mike Sivetz.  Have roasted
with high end roasters of both types, my opinion is that it is much
easier to get a better roast with a drum than with a fluid bed
roaster.  You do get a slightly brighter roast even with a commercial
air roaster, however head to head, a 1.25 pound Sivetz and my 1 pound
USRC are very comparable.  I was a fluid bed (air roaster) snob for
many years.  So it did take me some time to realize that they are both
excellent ways to roast.   Each one has its unique set of challenges
and a book could be written on the pros and cons.  Bottom line, you
need to learn how to roast with your roaster.  The principles are the
same no matter which method is used.   The old adage, you get what you
pay for is generally true when it comes to roasters.
Les
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 9:57 AM, Joseph Robertson  wrote:
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117) From: Joseph Robertson
Thank you Les,
I was hoping you would chime in on this. Very few here have had the
diverse background on this as you.
Best Regards,
Joe
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:37 AM, Les  wrote:
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