HomeRoast Digest


Topic: Five Pound Drum Roaster (86 msgs / 2701 lines)
1) From: R.N.Kyle
good job Ed, hey Charlie does this make Ed the Lists drum king? or do =
you have your (I thought you said) 6 lb drum up an running. But never =
the less this would still make Ed the Home Roast List non-commercial =
drum king.
Ron Kyle
Anderson SC
rnkyle

2) From: R.N.Kyle
Yeah Ed your right, I don't know about Butch, but Charlie is the one =
that got me thinking and I'm sure a lot of other list members, about =
building a home drum roaster, I was just kidding Charlie, You are the =
Man, Still Ed that was a fantastic job you should be proud of yourself, =
now how much will you be selling your drums for?:O)
Ron Kyle
Anderson SC
rnkyle

3) From: Ed Needham
The pics are finally up, along with a bit of commentary.  
(C'mon, Butch.  I wanna see your military spec drum roaster)
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.com
ed
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4) From: Oaxaca Charlie
--- Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>
 Take a bow, Ed! Sweeeet roaster. Well done, indeed.
 Charlie
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5) From: David Westebbe
<Snip>
<Snip>
I am extremely impressed.  Awesome.
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6) From: Dan Bollinger
Great job Ed!  Five Pounds!  Does this mean we can all toss our roasters and
expect deliveries from you?  Dan

7) From: Ben Treichel
Sweet Roaster, Nice page!.
Does this mean that you are going to do a massive coffee exchange all 
from one batch? ;-)
Ben
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
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8) From: jim gundlach
Very well done.  If you had roasted two pound batches in a wok you 
would have been ready for the smoke.
     Jim Gundlach
On Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 12:10 AM, Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
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9) From: Jack Berry
Incredible effort Ed! You should be proud, and broke. If I built the roaster
there would be pile of wasted metal, fried motors and emergency room bills
lying in the corner and a new garage to replace the one I burned down!

10) From: jim gundlach
Very well done.  If you had roasted two pound batches in a wok you 
would have been ready for the smoke.
     Jim Gundlach
On Sunday, February 9, 2003, at 12:10 AM, Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
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11) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 22:10 2/8/2003, Ed Needham typed:
<Snip>
Very sweet and professional looking.  Good job.
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting and Blending by Gestalt
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12) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 22:10 2/8/2003, Ed Needham typed:
<Snip>
So, with the move to 5lb and better flavor (old 1lb roaster comment) is the 
2 lb air roaster still on the schedule for completion and use or have you 
out done yourself out of a project?
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Roasting and Blending by Gestalt
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13) From: John Abbott
Some serious bean roasting going on!  What a passion to build that big guy -
a bit more passion and skill than I think many  of us have. Well done.  I
hope you are vacuum sealing the final product - 5 pounds would get stale (7
days max) in this house.
John - thinking my 1/2 pounder is a woos now

14) From: Oaxaca Charlie
--- "R.N.Kyle"  wrote:
<Snip>
 Sure, Ron. Ed can be king of the 5 pounders.(Long live the
King!) My larger drum is on hold for a while. The lighter gage,
smaller mesh SS I found turned out to be unweldable. Was going
for an 8 pounder. My first 5 pounder lasted for almost 2,000
roasts and it was made completely from junk metal. Cost me $20
and some coffee for the welding for the roller system and about
$100 for the drum.(allready had the brick oven) The drum still
seems like it'll last untill I retire some day.
 Ed's elegent unit looks like it's built to last, it's portable,
and an assistant could be more easilly trained to operate it so
Ed can take a break once he's roasting full time and the money's
rolling in .I may just follow his well documented
instructions and build one so I can take more time off and let
my younger son take over roasting with a more user friendly
machine, and have the backup capacity for the peak demand times
like just before Christmas. The way things are going, Tom better
think about selling 50 lb. bags with a little price break. 
 Ed, you have kicked the homeroast revolution into a higher
gear.
  Charlie
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15) From: floyd burton
Just cause the roaster will hold 5 or even 10# of beans doesn't mean you
have to load it with that much.  My drum has about a 10# capacity and it
roasts 1 or 2# very nicely.  Next drum will be around a 7# capacity and
hopefully the design will allow me to insert a TC to get a temp reading in
the drum-if I can't come up with a way to do that-won't bother to build
another drum.  Now am using sound of cracks to determine when to stop
roasts-that maybe enough.

16) From: John Abbott
Ah - caught me thinking automation again :O)  You are certainly right. I've
been working on pre-programmed profiles for so long that I never think
outside the 250 gram box.
Unless you can come up with a hollow shaft, I don't know how you're going to
manage. The drum is open ended on mine with a Y support several inches
inside the drum and the sensor sits inside the open end - as close as I've
been able to come. I may go back to the hollow shaft search again.
John - wondering why I want another roaster - too much coffee now :O)

17) From: Ed Needham
I think Butch and Charlie get the nod for drum kings.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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18) From: floyd burton
Hollow shaft idea is good.  I assume you would have a TC probe sticking out
of the hollow shaft and the wire running out the end of the shaft.  How do
you connect a turning wire to something stationary-reading a multi meter at
30 RPM is beyond my abilities :).  Thinking about having one end of the drum
with an opening around the shaft-suspending that end of the drum from a
support inside the drum and drilling a hole through the SS sides of the
roaster (ugh hate cutting SS) and placing the TC probe into the drum-course
have to remember to pull it out before removing the drum for dumping the
beans.

19) From: Ed Needham
My plan is to finish the air roaster so I can easily and quickly roast the
smallest beans, and to use 'air roast' techniques to bring out qualities that
are difficult in a drum roaster.  I 'really' need to get motivated to finish
it.  Maybe I'll do that next.  Please stop me if I get off on another roaster
tangent before I finish the air roaster.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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20) From: Ed Needham
The coffee doesn't usually stick around long enough to vac seal it.  I roast
five and use two or three, and sell or give away the rest.  Sometimes, I only
roast a couple of pounds.  I use sealed mason jars to put the beans in.  So
far, I've been getting most of them back for refills too .
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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21) From: John Abbott
Sell?  Now there's a new thought for me :O)  I have spoiled my friends and
family by routinely giving them coffee. When I got my cooped Kona, I gave
away a bunch of it - and now people keep saying the stuff I'm giving them
isn't as good as the Kona - well WAAA! Not going to be doing that again!  I
haven't given away any of my Mason jars, but use the foil bags that I got
from Tom & Maria for gift coffee.  My wife makes up Christmas jars with
padded cloth tops (arts & crafts specials) over the lids - maybe I can do
that with coffee and use some burlap like a bean bag.
John - trying to figure out how I can use the RF from my ham station for
heat to the roasters :o)

22) From: John Abbott
Getting the revolving end connected isn't a problem - in the crudest form
you could build a pair of collector rings (one for each lead) and make a
brush for each lead to ride the rings.  They make revolving connectors
though - if you wanted to use a sealed unit.
If you can counter rotate your drum so the beans are forced to one end - you
can use a solenoid operated trap like the HotTop.

23) From: Ed Needham
Now I've got to build a brick oven and get a good wok.
I am very thankful to all on this list who helped with ideas, inspiration and
motivation.  I don't think half of the ideas I put into these roasters would
have ever even been thought without the daily 'think tank' stuff we chew on
in here and on alt.coffee.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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24) From: Ed Needham
I've been sticking a 12" thermometer into a hole in the grill body and
angling it into the hole on the end of my drum so the tip of the probe is in
the bean mass.  I'm getting fairly accurate temp readings that way.  It's a
little tricky, because if I mess up and stick the probe in wrong, it'll get
all twisted and mangled.  That motor stops for no one.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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25) From: Craig Andrews
*I c.c.& pasted my reply from alt.coffee*:
Incredible home roaster website Ed!!  To support the thermocouple wire,
I wonder if it's possible on your 5lb & smaller roasters, to sneak in a
slightly off centered ( to the front center drum drive shaft), angled
slightly to the approx 7 - 8o'clock position, or straight with a slight
bend in it (like a dinner fork)., a piece 1/8th to 3/16th hollow
stainless steel tubing with the thermocouple wire snaked through it &
protruding approx 1/2", put a 45 - 90 degree bend in the thermocouple
wire so it's always in the cascading /tumbling bean stream for an
accurate measurement.
I'm thinking of trying this through the lid of the Alp, my thermocouple
wire is 80 thou so a piece of s.s. tubing 5/64" - 3/32" will work for
me.
I did have a thermocouple installed right on/beside the thermal fuse on
a test Alp for my work with Swissmar, to monitor internal environmental
temperatures at the thermal fuse.
Regards,
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26) From: Oaxaca Charlie
--- Ed Needham  wrote:
<Snip>
 Please do finish the air roaster, Ed. Meanwhile,if you haven't
tried yet, roast just 1/4 lb or so in the new drum. Seems a
waste of gas and all, but I get a quick roast that way(and at
lower roaster temp, BTW) that reminds me very much of what I was
getting from my FR. Because our drums are thin and perferated I
think that the drum roasted taste profile we get is due to the
beans all touching and rubbing and sharing heat amongst
themselves. The longer time needed to heat them all is another
factor. With a small amount of beans in these kinds of drums
they're bouncing around loose and being air heated. I used to
roast my small batches with the over the fire popper but now,
except for tiny beans, I roast them in the "big" drum. 
  Charlie
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27) From: floyd burton
Hey Ed-the smallest beans I can understand but what other qualities would an
air roaster bring out that a drum would not.  I have yet to get a bean stuck
in my 1/8" holes by the way.

28) From: Mike McGinness
From: "Ed Needham" 
<Snip>
that
<Snip>
finish
<Snip>
roaster
<Snip>
Very nice Ed. I really like your use of non-welding, makes it seem more
doable for those like me. The one thing I'm thinking on to work out before
attacking a drum roaster is how to incorporate a sampling trowel to pull
bean samples during the roast, like the professional drum roasters can. I
need to get over somewhere (probably Stumptown) and spend some time just
inspecting a pro drum roaster some more... One of my thoughts for using a
large package *mailbox* or the like is to figure out a way to have the front
of the drum *ride* on the front door. Don't know if it's at all feasible
just thinking. Then maybe open the door, tip the whole unit to dump the
roasted beans for cooling. Might be possible for trowel to be fitted in said
front area. Long way to go in research and planning...
MM;-) aka Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
Dual Variable Transformer Rosto Roasting
Rocky grindin' - Miss Silvia brewin'
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29) From: Ed Needham
I've been roasting fairly standard sized beans in the big drum, and no beans
are getting stuck.  I'm going to try smaller beans this weekend, so I'll
report back.
I want the air roaster to be able to do faster, brighter roasts.  I've
blended drum beans with HWP roasted beans in small batches, and I really like
the complex interplay of the two.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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30) From: Ed Needham
On my roaster, it would be incredibly easy to insert a tryer along the shaft,
into the hole on the end of the drum and get all the samples I want.  I've
just not gotten around to doing it.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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31) From: Les & Becky
Nice Job Ed!  I like your roaster and the dogs too!
Les
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32) From: R.N.Kyle
Ed a Tryer would be a great addition, a sight and smell tool. I know =
when I had the opportunity to roast some greens in a 25 lb Deitrich, the =
tryer was a great tool, to get the roast just where you wanted it. The =
main difference being the ability to dump the roast immediately with the =
Dietrich and begin cooling.
Ron Kyle
Anderson SC
rnkyle

33) From: Lowe, David
Wow, looks great, a nice piece of work.
I've been to the frontgate web site and never seem to have any success =
finding any perforated stainless waste cans. Do they still sell them? If =
so, does anyone have clues on where to find them on their web site? I've =
tried various searches as well as just meandering about the web site =
with no success.
Dave Lowe

34) From: Lowe, David
Could use the same approach for a thermocouple. Putting the drum on =
rollers might be another approach and would allow for easy (relatively) =
insertion of thing like a tryer and a thermocouple. 
Dave Lowe

35) From: Scott Jensen
No they don't sell them any longer.  I just called them today-I couldn't
find them on the web site either.  I asked who the manufacture is but was
told "in an agreement with the manufacture that can not be revealed".  Have
searched the web for the last hour hoping to find something similar to no
avail.
Scott Jensen-  Back on the list after a long hibernation- Hello to
everyone!!
<Snip>
finding any perforated stainless waste cans. Do they >still sell them? If
so, does anyone have clues on where to find them on their web site? I've
tried various searches as well as >just meandering about the web site with
no success.
<Snip>
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36) From: Ed Needham
I was thinking of rollers for one end of the drum instead of the shaft coming
out of the hole. and using a chute to drop the coffee in.  Possibilities,
possibilities!
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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37) From: Ed Needham
I should mention that in the article.  Frontgate doesn't sell the cans
anymore.  There is another web supplier that has the cans, but they are more
expensive.http://www.silvo.com/default.asp?PRODUCT_ID57&CATEGORY_ID=2&CATEGORYH$60 is a bit pricey, but the holes look really small.  I may have to buy one">http://www.poulder.comI couldn't find a reference to it on their web site, but another web supplierhttp://www.silvo.com/default.asp?PRODUCT_ID57&CATEGORY_ID=2&CATEGORYH$60 is a bit pricey, but the holes look really small.  I may have to buy one
just to drum roast smaller beans.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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38) From: Ed Needham
I want to be able to pull out samples at different times during the roast to
nail the correct roast point.  A tryer with two tablespoons of beans could
grab a sample, every 30 seconds during the last 3 minutes or so and have the
time and temp recorded for the sample.  Best sample wins for the next roast
of the same thing.
It takes me just seconds to dump the roast.  I pop the lid, kill the flame 30
seconds before I want to pull the roast.  I wait till the correct time, as
the beans are entering second crack, then grab the drum, and pour.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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39) From: Mike McGinness
From: "Ed Needham" 
<Snip>
supplier
<Snip>
one
<Snip>
Thanks for the research. I couldn't find anything on Polders site either.
They do *look* like promising options. Pricey? Ah who knows as compared to
what anyway! I'm more for off the shelf and modify than trying to get some
flat SS and try and make a drum. Me thinks I'll verify the hole diameter
first though.
MM;-) aka Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
Dual Variable Transformer Rosto Roasting
Rocky grindin' - Miss Silvia brewin'
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40) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 17:40 2/10/2003, Ed Needham typed:
<Snip>
This is what I am planning.  Shaft attached to one end (but not through), 
the other rolling of two rollers, with the other end tapered but open 
(maybe covered with glass) so I can watch the roast and insert my thermometer.
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Roasting and Blending by Gestalt
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41) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 18:07 2/10/2003, Mike McGinness typed:
<Snip>
As another source of drums, I just got mine this weekend.  I am going with 
stovepipe after all BUT it is 302 SS.  Got it from a local fireplace/stove 
installation business.  The 6"x12" drum plus enough SS L's and SS rivets 
for the vanes was $40.  More than some places, less than others.  OTOH I 
will probably get the remainder of my needed SS L (for the framing) from 
him for no cost.
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Roasting and Blending by Gestalt
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42) From: Ed Needham
Woo Hoo!  Go John!
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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43) From: Ed Needham
I sent them an email asking for the hole diameter.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.com
ed
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44) From: Ed Needham
If you find suitable rollers, let me know.  I want to free up the hole where
the beans go in so I can add a chute.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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45) From: Ben Treichel
Roller both ends with the outside of one end of the drum having gear 
teeth. Then the motor can sit off to the side.
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
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46) From: John Abbott
And you COULD gear it down if you needed to change the rotation speed.

47) From: john kangas
Or like I'm working on, track down two roller-rack rollers. (like the 
roll-along assembly line type things) I managed to track a couple down, they 
even have a notch at one end that looks like it was meant for a belt! Or it 
wouldn't be hard to tack on a bicycle gear to turn one roller or both.
Or if you're sticking it in a BBQ, it wouldn't be hard to make your own, 
with pipe, extending out the sides, and bearings in the ends. And on top of 
that, to help keep them cool(er), and cut out the metal-drum-rolling-on-pipe 
noises, wrap the rollers with header wrap. (from automotive parts shop, 
normally used for 1500+ degree exhaust header insulation)
Maybe an eye bolt out the back, and one out the side of the front, two 
J-shaped hooks (like a hay bale hook, but smaller) to stick through those 
would pick it up level and tilt to empty easily.
John Kangas
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48) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 18:58 2/10/2003, Ed Needham typed:
<Snip>
Will do.  If memory serves (no guarantees) the rollers and their rods are 
the last item I need material wise.  Due to the extreme temperatures we 
would be putting them at, I am thinking I may well have to cobble together 
"rollers".  Too many just can not take 500F.  They swell and stop 
rolling.  My present low tech thought is to use a round shaft collar locked 
onto an appropriately sized bit of SS tubing slipped over a shaft, probably 
held in place by two other small shaft collars.  Don't know if it will work 
as planned but I find out.
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Roasting and Blending by Gestalt
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49) From: Ben Treichel
check scrap yards near old steel mills, they should have it, if anybody 
does.
AlChemist John wrote:
<Snip>
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50) From: Oaxaca Charlie
--- AlChemist John  wrote:
<Snip>
 I used some ss tubing as bushings after my shaft started eating
it's way through the steel frame, and they held up very well.
Still some squeeling, but not too bad. I foolishly tried brass
"shaft collars" but they swelled up amazingly when hot (the end
inside the oven)and grabbed the shaft. Now with alternater
bearings out side and graphite with a hole for the shaft to turn
in at the hot end it seems a permanant solution. 
Very important to have the shafts comming perfectly straight
from the roller ends or shaft wobble can prevent it from turning
in the bushings.  
Charlie
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51) From: Ed Needham
Sounds like a lot of work.  I'll build a new roaster before going to all that
effort.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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52) From: Ben Treichel
So, when do you start? ;-)
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
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53) From: John Abbott
Ed, Ed, Ed!  Its not the effort - its the adventure and the knowledge that
YOU did it.  Hey, if HotTop can get $550 for a 1/2 pound unit, I accept the
challenge to create a 1 pound unit for under $550.  Come on man - your
risking big CSA points here :O)
John - having hacked the FR, FR+ and HotTop and game for anything.

54) From: Ed Needham
I was taking notes on a Diedrich when I was at Barry Jarrett's place in
January.  It's not really that complicated unless it needs to really be
prettied up.  A cast drum with angled stirring vanes, mounted on pillow block
bearings on a 5/8" steel shaft between two steel plates, with an inlet hole
and an outlet hole, a source of heat inside a heat chamber, a few motors and
switches, a few thermocouples and a means to cool the beans and voila!  The
worlds largest home roasting device for under $1000.  Most of the rest of the
$10,000 it takes to buy one of these things is in paying the designers, the
business overhead, marketing, the liability, the training and oh, the profit.
I'm thinking...I'm thinking.  I'm not so naive to think I could build a
perfect roaster, or one better than those commercial Diedrich's or Probats
but I have no doubt that I could do it and do it a lot cheaper than one I'd
have to buy new.  If I could get a really sweet deal on a used one, hey, I'd
go for that too.  In 2004, hopefully I'll outgrow my five pounder and need a
commercial roaster .
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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55) From: Ed Needham
I'm thinking 'roaster without a grill' attached.  One that is too big to roll
around.  I want to fill and dump the beans without removing the drum.  I
don't want to have to disassemble the thing when my wife wants me to grill
hamburgers and hot dogs.  Big, big, big.  More CSA points, More!  More!!!
Bwahahaahhaaaaa  bwahhaaahhaahha!!!!
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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56) From: floyd burton
How would you dump the beans without removing the drum-I can load my drum
with no problem in the grill-got a great metal grain scoop.  Know hot to get
a trier/thief and TC in but getting the beans out without removing the
drum-only way I can see is to have a fold down end on the roaster, open the
trap door and tip the whole thing up-nah that is impractical.  Keep thinking
Ed.

57) From: Ed Needham
Drum ~$20
Rotisserie shaft ~$10
Stainless ~free (scrap)
Flange ~ $10 (half of a two part set)
Bowl ~$2
Motor ~$40
Coupling ~1 jar of homeroast
Ceramic diffusion tiles ~$12
Misc. conduit, switches, etc. ~$10
Total:            $104 and a jar of homeroast
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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58) From: Ed Needham
Thanks Charlie.  It's a rush to be able to roast larger batches.  It really
makes me think before ruining a whole 5 pound batch, not like roasting 3
ounce batches, which, if ruined, is not much more than a smoke alarm going
off.
The big bags and price break sound good to me!
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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59) From: John Abbott
Ed, ever look into one of those home cement mixers.  Seems to me that it is
already geared for a lot of weight, the barrel is made of steel and you
could just put one of those propane heaters on end under it .... and dumping
is built in -you just grab the handle and tilt it over and pour the beans
into the wheelbarrow so you can take them in the house and vacuum bag them.
NOW THAT WOULD BE A CSA ROASTER!

60) From: Ed Needham
Long range, I want to do a roaster where all those things I mentioned were in
the design.  I want a drum with angled stirring vanes and a weighted door to
allow the roasted beans to be pushed out without any handling of the drum.  I
can't really do that on a BBQ grill, but in a more dedicated design, it
should be fairly simple.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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61) From: Andrew Thomas
Has anyone considered a ceramic drum? It might take a while to get hot, but seems like it would retain heat well. And, how to construct...?
Andy -- thinking out loud
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62) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 21:02 2/11/2003, Ed Needham typed:
<Snip>
Angle iron rigging above the grill.  Attach one wench cable (connected if 
course to your existing monster drum motor) to lift and dump bean, to both 
ends to keep the drum "out of the way" for the dogs.  Just a thought...
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Roasting and Blending by Gestalt
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63) From: Ed Needham
Someone here mentioned he was a potter not too long ago (before Christmas)
and I encouraged him to make a ceramic drum.  I've not heard back on that
experiment yet, but I think it's a shoe-in for him.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
****************************************
**********************************************

64) From: jim gundlach
John,
    Believe it or not, I actually looked at one with the same thought in 
mind.  The one I looked at had greased bearings that would not take the 
heat so something would have to be done to either change them to 
something that would take the heat or to cool them.  Since the belt 
drive also would not take the heat, something to shield the working 
parts from the heat would seem to be the easiest modification.
Jim Gundlach
On Tuesday, February 11, 2003, at 11:39 PM, John Abbott wrote:
<Snip>
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65) From: Oaxaca Charlie
--- floyd burton  wrote:
<Snip>
 Floyde, if you've had a chance to study a pro drum roaster you
see that the agitater vanes are angled so that a majority of the
beans are guided towards the door end. Open the door and they
pour out, with the drum turning. You need that kind of door
that's not attatched to the drum.
 Last trip south I went to visit all the roasting operations I
could find in Oaxaca and found various versions of 25 lb. batch
drum roasters made on the cheap (compared to Probat, Deidrich,
etc.) Simple enough systems with large drums being turned over
gas flames in a metal housing. At a glance they resembled a
Deidrich.Glass fronted doors, tryers etc. The drum on at least
one was turned by gear teeth right on the drum and a chain drive
from a motor. However, without the involved system of forced
airflow and advanced use of radient and convective heat they did
a poor job of producing quality roasts. Maybe they're just
underpowered, but one hour plus roasts in very warm ambient
temps are the norm. Baked coffee. Certainly the 20 minute cool
downs with stirring vanes turning a deep pile of beans doesn't
help any. These roasters cost only about $2,000where welders
only make $6 a day. Probably at least that much more to ship one
to the US        
                                                     
Knowing how, why, and when to pull the different levers for
airflow controll on a pro roasting drum are essencial to using
them and so far Ed's designs haven't started into that phase.
 A dedicated grill for roasting and a lot of brainstorming to
come up with the right design for a pro type door for viewing,
sampling and dumping could lead to the perfect 5 lb.(maybe up to
7lb.) batch roaster for many thousands of dollars less than
what's on the market. It's revolutionary stuff. Smoke will keep
them in rural areas though. Proper venting is a whole other
issue and an expensive one for roasting companies.
Charlie
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66) From: floyd burton

67) From: Oaxaca Charlie
--- floyd burton  wrote:
<Snip>
 I said "most" of the bean movement is toward the door. That's
so when emptying they will all eventuall come out. Fast moving
drum makes eventually very soon. They do tend to be a little
deeper at the door end and that helps keep the thermocoupler
buried in beans.Some vanes angle the beans towards the back so
they don't all stay piled up at one end. I should say no more
about pro drum units since I've hardly ever played with any.
Other list folk know much more about them.  
When are your drum pics ever going to show up on Ed's site? He's
getting all the glory.;o)
Charlie
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68) From: John Abbott
Oh, I believe it!  :O)   I'm getting so I take a close look at anything that
rotates.
John

69) From: floyd burton
Jim-are you serious-just happen to have a small motorized mixer in my
basement-hmm are some possibilities but getting the main bearing and drive
gear to survive the heat is a problem.  Have nor really looked at pro
drums-there is a guy just down the road from in a town of 1k people with a
Probat-he roasts for restaurants-will stop in and have a look at his
drum-maybe get some ideas-do you think of coffee roasters when you see those
huge kilns turning rocks into cement?

70) From: jim gundlach
Floyd and other big homemade drum roaster fans.
       I was searching the web looking for some pictures of a cement 
mixer that might be easier to protect the bearing and drive assembly 
from the heat when I ran across an item on eBay which was for an 
article on how to build a cheap cement mixer out of an old washing 
machine drum.  I thought about the inner drum of washing machines.  
These are porcelain enameled steel drums.  Or for our ceramic fans out 
there, steel reinforced ceramics.  I have a couple of old dead washing 
machines out in the shop and while the holes are relatively widely 
spaced, one of them has 1/8 inch holes and the other has holes that 
look like they are barely larger than 1/8.  In short they would let 
some hot air in while not letting even small pea-berries fall through.  
A quick check of the web site of the Porcelain Enamel Institute yielded 
the following temperature data:
  " The conventional firing temperatures using a steel substrate are 
from 1450  degree F to 1550 degree F (788 degree C to 843 degree C).  
Thus, the thermal stability of these coatings vary from 1050 degree F 
to 1150 degree F  (566 degree C to 621 degree C)."
The drums I have do not have vanes for stirring but I believe I have 
seen some with them.  But adding some would not be that much of a 
problem.  I could see such a drum roaster made from one of these 
handling twenty pounds or more.  Also, some washing machines are quite 
small and it might be possible to find some that are small enough so 
that five pounds would fit well.
    Jim Gundlach
    roasting over pecan wood fires
    in La Place, Alabama
On Wednesday, February 12, 2003, at 06:38 PM, floyd burton wrote:
<Snip>
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71) From: floyd burton
Jim-a big drum is really easy to make-just get a metal fabricator to run a
sheet thru the break roller and give him a target diameter.  Bet I could
fabricate a 2' diameter drum, 3' long from say 14 gauge cr steel in a couple
of easy days.  But then building a box to house the drum, getting the pillow
blocks and all the doors, burners together-might be cheaper to look around
and get one of those ancient German roasters and put it into operation-can u
imagine a cast iron drum of that dimension.
WHen I get my little roaster going I have now-have so many beans-am giving
them away free on weekends-get lots of cards/letters-everybody likes the
stuff-the library, PO, police station and this weekend some to the gals
working in city hall.  Would have to get a truck to cart around all the
stuff.  What on earth would we do with a really big roaster.  Then where to
store several hundred pounds of green.  Guy just down the road roasts IIRC
500 or 1K# a week-don't think I want to go full time into roasting.

72) From: Oaxaca Charlie
 Amazing. A good friend has been bugging me to try converting a
laundrymat type washing machine or cloths dryer into a roasting
unit for years. Many do have "vanes" for agitating the cloths.
And I swear I saw a thread on alt.coffee, the first time I got
into that site, with someone claiming to be using a cement mixer
to roast. (I think it was a joke, though).
 I just assumed that washing machines and dryers would have
parts that couldn't handle intense heat and I never studied
whether or not they might have components that might make good
drums. The fixed doors with good viewing always remind me of pro
drum roasters.
Charlie
--- jim gundlach  wrote:
<Snip>
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73) From: Oaxaca Charlie
--- floyd burton  wrote:
-might be cheaper to
<Snip>
They're very expensive, Floyd
<Snip>
 You're starting out just the right way. Giving away your
experemental roasts, getting people around you hooked on fresh
roast, not going into debt while doing so...And "normal" people,
too. Not just "specialty only" or yuppy types. Perfect. Just how
I started out. You'll need good storage for more than a couple
hundred lbs of greens. That's just one and a half sacks. Good
storage for roasted beans, too, all such storage space clean and
secure enough for food safety inspecters. Even that won't be
enough if the local inspecter is a hard ass because food
preperation outside a certified kitchen isn't exactly legal. My
local inspecter is more concerned about rodent and insect free
storage and looks the other way re. the outdoor brick oven
roasting part. No need to roast 1,000 lbs a week unless you're
paying off a %100,000 loan to start up a coffee business with a
$30,000 roaster and special building and a huge greens
inventory.
 If you love the job you have now, and it's pretty secure then
keep it a fun hobby. Otherwise a micro (really micro) coffee
roastery is kinda nice. Beats workin' ;o)
Charlie
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74) From: Ed Needham
Funny you should mention airflow Charlie.
I've been toying with the idea of blowing heated air into the hole on the
drum to blow away some of the smoke and chaff, and to provide convection
heat.  Recirculating the air would just recirc the smoke, unless I added a
scrubber (which I have no intention of doing until I have to).  The idea is
to use a heat gun and a retractable tube, mounted on the side of the grill
opposite the motor.  I'll have to turn the drum around on the spit, but
that's a 30 second fix.  I also want the retractable tube to double as a
chute to insert green beans.  If I do the roller mod, this is all possible
and easy.  Then the whole operation is inside the grill until it's time to
drop the beans.  Using the heat gun blowing into the drum, and an equally
powered (CFM) exhaust outlet cut into the grill body could help solve my
smoke problem and probably allow for a cleaner roast (less effect on the bean
from smoke).
It's becoming a monster!
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
****************************************
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75) From: Ed Needham
I'm waiting...
Glory.  Hmmm...How does that translate to money? 
Ed

76) From: Ed Needham
Sure brings new meaning to 'washed arabicas'.
Dang you Jim!  Now you'll have me checking out old washers beside the road on
junk day to see if the perforations are small enough for making a roasting
drum.
OFFICER- "Whatcha doin' there son?"
ED- "Oh, just measuring these holes.
OFFICER- "Measuring the holes?  Why in tarnation are you measuring holes on
an old, trashed out washer"
ED- "I'm going to roast coffee with it"
OFFICER- "You're gonna what??? Son, you're going to have to come with me"
ED- "NO, REALLY!  I'M NOT CRAZY! I DO ROAST COFFEE!  I MAKE THESE COFFEE
ROASTERS OUT OF TRASH CANS AND OLD WASHERS!  PLEASE BELIEVE
MEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!"
....later that day at the hospital.
DR. SIMPSON- "Now Ed, tell me again how to build a roaster that big?"
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
****************************************
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77) From: Ben Treichel
Hey Ed, my Maytag has a SS drum in it. Probably good for at least 12 
kilo. ;-)
Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
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78) From: John Abbott
Oh now I'm nervous - were talking about a couple of kilos - of malabar Gold?
We should get DEA activity on the list soon :))

79) From: floyd burton

80) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 20:15 2/12/2003, Ed Needham typed:
<Snip>
Does the smoke have a negative impact on your flavor profile?  I recall a 
discussion of air vs drum roasting where air roasting is noted as "cleaner" 
but no necessarily better.
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Roasting and Blending by Gestalt
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81) From: Ed Needham
I 'really' like the roasts I've been getting 'with' the smoke present in
abundant quantities, but I can't help but think that it 'must' be masking
some of the subtle bean flavors.  I can't taste a smoky flavor, per se, but
compared side by side, the air roast does seem to have a cleaner taste.
Maybe it's just greater brightness, as compared to the fuller bodied drum
roast, but it could also be from the smoke factor.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
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82) From: Dan Bollinger
Good point, Ed.  I wonder how we could cup this and find out?  Dan
<Snip>
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83) From: Ben Treichel
Wasn't our resident Alchemist investigating the phenol content of beans 
to determine if smoke had an effect on the roast?
Dan Bollinger wrote:
<Snip>

84) From: John Abbott
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
I think I was the hold up - I didn't get my beans off to him until last
Monday - but they went express and should be there now.
John

85) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 20:56 2/13/2003, Ed Needham typed:
<Snip>
Granted that the air roasted is "cleaner" but on my case at least, I am 
moving away from air roasting for that reason.  I want more character to my 
roasts and am hopeful drum roasting will do it.  Mind you, my modified WBI 
roasts very nice coffee
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Roasting and Blending by Gestalt
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86) From: AlChemist John
Yes, I have data for all but the HotTop (which oddly enough should arrive 
today).  I did not want to string out the data, so was waiting for all of 
it before complying and posting it.  Initially indications are some subtle 
phenolic differences, but not as much as I expected/hoped.  I will know 
better after I normalize all the data based on extraction effiencies and 
wights.  Data often becomes more clear cut after that.
Sometime around 05:54 2/14/2003, Ben Treichel typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Roasting and Blending by Gestalt
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