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Topic: (Fwd) Re: +Drum versus air: a clone roasting experiment (3 msgs / 129 lines)
1) From: Jim Schulman
Hi Tom,
My myrealbox emailer is dumping all my outgoing emails, so I can't 
get to the list (this addie isn't subscribed) So I'm forwarding it direct 
to you. Sorry for the delay.
If you have a moment, you could forward it to the list,
Jim
------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	Jim Schulman 
To:             	homeroast
Subject:        	Re: +Drum versus air: a clone roasting 
experiment
Date sent:      	Sat, 22 Mar 2003 10:45:03 -0600
Hi Tom
You wrote:
<Snip>
I can't speak for Barry or Paul, but I don't think 
the experiment leaves a lot of room for those who 
think there are inherent systematic differences 
between air and drum roasting other than roast 
profile. Illy once experimented with variable 
airflows on the same profile, even using nitrogen 
to prevent oxidation, and found no difference in 
taste worth pursuing. When it comes to gross 
acidity and body; whatever the difference roasting 
changes make, is due to the profile, not roaster.
However, Barry's overall scoring suggests that an 
air profile may need to be 5% to 10% shorter than 
an unventilated drum profile to get exactly the 
same body and acidity. Testing this would take a 
lot of expert tasting using the blind triangle 
method Barry developed. This seems such a 
thankless task, that I hardly want to pursue it.
Also, there were a lot of subtle differences in 
aromatics and flavor which outweighed the body and 
acidity differences in our tastings. None of us 
think this experiment shed any light whatsoever on 
what caused those differences. The likable and 
unlikable roasts were all over the place.
This experiment doesn't say much about another 
factor: One can get the same acidity and body 
using a typical "air roast profile" of fast to 
350F and slower thereafter, or a typical "drum 
roast profile" that's slower to 350F but faster 
than the airroaster thereafter. Is the latter 
"slow start/fast finish" profile, as Rusty Staub 
claims, unconditionally superior to the fast 
start/slow finish one. Aside from that claim, I 
haven't heard much about cupping differences 
between the two.
Finally, once one has a basic profile one likes, 
one still has to "learn the bean" and come up with 
the roasting tweaks that get the most out if it.
Jim
------- End of forwarded message -------
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

2) From: Tom Gramila
I forwarded this message at Jim's Schulman's request. -- Tom G.
------- Forwarded message follows -------
From:           	Jim Schulman 
Date sent:      	Sat, 22 Mar 2003 10:45:03 -0600
Hi Tom
You wrote:
<Snip>
I can't speak for Barry or Paul, but I don't think the experiment leaves a
lot of room for those who think there are inherent systematic differences
between air and drum roasting other than roast profile. Illy once
experimented with variable airflows on the same profile, even using
nitrogen to prevent oxidation, and found no difference in taste worth
pursuing. When it comes to gross acidity and body; whatever the difference
roasting changes make, is due to the profile, not roaster.
However, Barry's overall scoring suggests that an air profile may need to
be 5% to 10% shorter than an unventilated drum profile to get exactly the
same body and acidity. Testing this would take a lot of expert tasting
using the blind triangle method Barry developed. This seems such a
thankless task, that I hardly want to pursue it.
Also, there were a lot of subtle differences in aromatics and flavor which
outweighed the body and acidity differences in our tastings. None of us
think this experiment shed any light whatsoever on what caused those
differences. The likable and unlikable roasts were all over the place.
This experiment doesn't say much about another factor: One can get the
same acidity and body using a typical "air roast profile" of fast to 350F
and slower thereafter, or a typical "drum roast profile" that's slower to
350F but faster than the airroaster thereafter. Is the latter "slow
start/fast finish" profile, as Rusty Staub claims, unconditionally
superior to the fast start/slow finish one. Aside from that claim, I
haven't heard much about cupping differences between the two.
Finally, once one has a basic profile one likes, one still has to "learn
the bean" and come up with the roasting tweaks that get the most out if
it.
Jim
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast

3) From: Ben Treichel
Fowarded at Jims Request.
Jim Schulman wrote:
<Snip>
homeroast mailing listhttp://lists.sweetmarias.com/mailman/listinfo/homeroast


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