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Topic: Mokha profile? (12 msgs / 271 lines)
1) From: Lee XOC
I just occurred to me that I can't remember the last time I roasted up
some Mokha that came out good-tasting!  I mean ... uh ... it's supposed
to, right?? ;)  I always get this sourness -- not bitterness, not
harshness, I mean an unpleasant sourness like that of sour milk.  Yuck.
Anyone steer me right Mokhawise?
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Lee / San Diego
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2) From: AlChemist John
Take it to 2nd crack.  It is one of the few beans I roast past 435F.  I 
usually shoot for 450 and a good rolling 2nd.
What are you doing?  More info would help figure out why it is sour.  I 
would assume too fast of a roast.
Sometime around 20:06 5/6/2003, Lee XOC typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting and Blending by Gestalt

3) From: Peter Barnes
I agree.  The only Mokha that has tasted good to me with a city roast is 
the Ismaili, and then only in a French Press.  My sweet spot with the 
other Mokhan varieties (sounds like a Star Wars planet) has been 15 
seconds into second crack on my popper, or just into second crack on the 
Rosto (which roasts 5 minutes slower than my popper). 
AlChemist John wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Lee XOC
< On Behalf Of AlChemist John
< Sent: Wednesday, 07 May, 2003 5:50 AM
<
< Take it to 2nd crack.  It is one of the few beans I roast
< past 435F.  I
< usually shoot for 450 and a good rolling 2nd.
<
< What are you doing?  More info would help figure out why it
< is sour.  I would assume too fast of a roast.
You want info -- you got it!  There's a new notebook in the kitchen to
accompany all the funny-looking electrical equipment.  There I now keep
detailed logs on my roasts, frantically written down as the roast
progresses (now roasting is a hectic activity, not a split second of
sitting around, often trying to look at 2 or 3 things at the same time
.... iow ... more fun!)
So click here for my most recent Haimi roast.  This one came out with
the usual sourness I've been getting on Mokhas (note you may need to
scroll horizontally to see everything):http://members.cox.net/xoc/haimi.03-05-01.xlsSee anything "off"?
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Lee / San Diego
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5) From: Jim Schulman
Hi Lee,
If you roast them light (City), make sure not to 
end the roast until the smell gets sweet. Also 
rest them 2 days after a lighter roast. A darker 
roast, to the start of a rolling second, will 
diminish the fruit but add some chocolate roast 
flavor.
Jim
On 6 May 2003 at 20:06, Lee XOC wrote:
<Snip>

6) From: Lee XOC
< On Behalf Of Jim Schulman
< Sent: Wednesday, 07 May, 2003 4:16 PM
<
< If you roast them light (City), make sure not to
< end the roast until the smell gets sweet. Also
< rest them 2 days after a lighter roast. A darker
< roast, to the start of a rolling second, will
< diminish the fruit but add some chocolate roast
< flavor.
Chocolate I could deal with. ;)  Seriously, if I could just get rid of
the sourness the other flavors would probably be great.  I think I
probably need to shorten the first part of the roast considerably.
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Lee / San Diego
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7) From: Jim Schulman
On 7 May 2003 at 20:33, Lee XOC wrote:
<Snip>
I'm not sure that would help, longer ramp ups to 
the first crack reduce sourness, too long and it 
reduces everything else too. I typically stop a 
mocha roast just prior to the first snap of the 
second -- 435 to 440 on my thermometer. I try to 
spend about 3 minute going from 400 to 435 
(12f/min), and about 6 from 300 to 400 (15f/min, 
for 5 and 25 for 1). That gets me a nice big dose 
of the heady fruit liquor taste I like.
Jim

8) From: AlChemist John
Data, I love data (blwahahahaha)
sorry about that....
Anyway, I can't explain your mokha is sour but it looks like you roast is 
too long not too short.  Your ramp looks fine up to about 300 degrees, but 
is leveling out too much IMO.  Really hit the roast with more heat at the 
beginning to get the energy you need into the beans to roast properly.  As 
long as your fluid bed is fine you can't hurt the beans really (at least 
based on the data).   IMNSHO, it looks like you are approaching the roast 
profile "backwards", i.e. low heat initially and more heat as it 
isn't  where you want it, and always trying to play catch up.  Try high 
heat and back off to keep it in control.  See if you can pull the whole 
roast time to under 12 minutes, although I have found mokha in particular 
could even go down under a 10 minute roast.
I hope that is not to much critiquing of your roasting technique.
Sometime around 10:07 5/7/2003, Lee XOC typed:
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting and Blending by Gestalt

9) From: David Westebbe
<Snip>
One nice thing about fluid bed roasters is that they do this automagically.
When the beans lose water and puff up, the air speed increases, and the
temperature decreases.  If you like this sort of thing, you can play with
the amount of beans in each batch so that the temperature ramp works out
just right with no fiddling.

10) From: Lee XOC
< On Behalf Of AlChemist John
< Sent: Thursday, 08 May, 2003 5:58 AM
<
< IMNSHO, it looks like you are approaching the roast
< profile "backwards", i.e. low heat initially and more heat as it
< isn't  where you want it, and always trying to play catch up.
<  Try high
< heat and back off to keep it in control.  See if you can pull
< the whole
< roast time to under 12 minutes, although I have found mokha
< in particular could even go down under a 10 minute roast.
You know, I think that's a very astute observation, because I *feel*
like I'm playing "catch-up" much of the time.  I think I am overly
worried about scorching the beans the way the unmodified FR does, where
you get green/brown at the same time just into the roast.
So I'm inferring the ideal roast profile graph should look much like the
graph of the square root function.  Correct me if I'm wrong.
< I hope that is not to much critiquing of your roasting technique.
Not at all ... I'm just starting to get serious and need all the input I
can get.
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Lee / San Diego
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11) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 10:01 5/8/2003, Lee XOC typed:
<Snip>
I can see that worry.  Just make sure you have some bean movement and you 
will be fine.  As David says, the beans will lighten up and move more as 
they roast, thus the roast will sort of self regulate.  That is often what 
I mean by Zen roasting, i.e. finding the balance point where the roast self 
regulates.  With heater and flow control you have a larger bean mass 
window, but the principle is the same.
<Snip>
Yes, roughly like that.  Try this.  Load your beans with the heater and fan 
on full and enough beans to just barely move.  If you find you are getting 
uneven beans, pull back on the heat a little, if the beans are jumping out, 
pull the fan back a little (while keeping your beans moving.).  If you 
start to stall at the upper end pull the fan back a bit, if the temp is 
rocketing, the heat.  Mostly, let your roaster roast.  The various controls 
IMO are too keep the roast tweaked in, not forced in.
That is basically what I do.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting and Blending by Gestalt

12) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 08:54 5/8/2003, David Westebbe typed:
<Snip>
Exactly how I roast.
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting and Blending by Gestalt


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