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Topic: 24/7 hmmm... (16 msgs / 398 lines)
1) From: espresso gin
Hi all:
A friend asked me earlier today about leaving his Grimac on 24/7 which
reminded of the old can/should you leave the computer on 24/7?
I leave my machine on 24/7 and my computers as well so I may not have been
the best person to ask since he seemed a bit nervous to do it.
Any thoughts from the group here on this query?
Thanks in advance,
ginny

2) From: Jim Schulman
The question is discussed frequently. Bottom line, 
switching saves power, and reduces wear on the 
group gasket. But the resulting expansion and 
contraction may increase wear on the joints and 
washers in the boiler and piping. Nobody has done 
a calculation as to which is least expensive.
I leave mine on 24/7 since my schedule is very 
erratic. If your friend's schedule is pretty well 
set, a timer that switches it on an hour before 
use would be fine. 
But here's a gotcha: On some machines, switching 
on at the mains is not the same as switching on 
via the machine, due to the electronics. In that 
case a surge supressor along with the timer is a 
good idea, since the spikes from switching at the 
mains may stress the electronics. Jim Piccinich of 
1st line and Chris Nachtrieb of Chris Coffee both 
think this is a good idea based on their service 
and repair experience.
Jim
On 10 May 2003 at 17:52, espresso gin wrote:
<Snip>

3) From: espresso gin
Thanks Jim:
I leave mine on for the same reason you do and I have never had a problem
with my espresso machines or computers for that matter.
I do not have a surge on my espresso machine guess I should do that.
thanks again,
ginny

4) From: John Abbott
Gin,
You are obviously running a Linux system :O)  My MS-Windows never made
it through the night. My Red Hat Machine has run continuously for 4 1/2
months - plugged into a UPS so I don't gets those mains shots Jim eludes
to. The SM5K is on a timer - but now I'm rethinking.
John - drinking a Peruvian double and loving life in the slow lane
On Sat, 2003-05-10 at 21:30, espresso gin wrote:
    Thanks Jim:
    
    I leave mine on for the same reason you do and I have never had a problem
    with my espresso machines or computers for that matter.
    
    I do not have a surge on my espresso machine guess I should do that.
    
    thanks again,
    
    ginny

5) From: dewardh
<Snip>
Same.  24/7.  Hard drives especially should be rated not in hours but in on/off
cycles.  Thermal cycling and start/stop cycling age most components far more
than continuous operation.  Consider light bulbs . . . have you ever seen one
fail while on?  Mine usually go "poof" when I flip the switch . . .
Surge suppressors are a good idea, though, for anything electronic.
Deward

6) From: john roberts
yup, I've actually seen light bulbs fail while on, but agree it's not very
common...
Funny story, I was writing a magazine column back in the '80s about pretty
much that same question... was it better to turn (recording studio)
equipment off over night or leave it on 24/7..... While I was writing that
piece, the light bulb in my desk lamp burned out.....
JR

7) From: dewardh
<Snip>
I know it does happen . . . (or at least I know that lights that I left =
on have
failed . . . could have been a surge or temporary outage that did it, =
though
).  I suspect that you are the rare exception who has actually seen =
it happen
.  OTOH, I have a back porch light, a 240V bulb operating on 120V, =
which
except for power outages has been on continuously for over 25 years.  It =
will
probably outlast me . . .
Deward

8) From: Bob Sanders
<Snip>
Sorry, I disagree on this.  Sealed bearings have a finite life. 
Typical IDE hard drives have a 1 to 2 yr. lifespan.
The fans in most computers will fail first, usually the power supply fan.
Computer monitors - CRTs, have a 2 yr. lifespan when left on continously - even
in standby mode, while ones that are turned off at the end of the day, typically
last 3 yrs or more.  LCD monitors typically have a flouresant bulb that has a
10,000 hr life - leave it on and it will get to the end of that life faster.
The question that each individual has to answer, whether it's an espresso machine
or a computer, is - what is my usage pattern.  If I'm pulling shots only during the
weekend, I turn my machine on on Friday night and off on Sunday night.
My computers go on in the evening when I get home and get shutdown in the morning
when I leave for work.  Typically, they stay on during the weekend.  My monitors
all get shut off when I don't need them for several hours.
In an espresso machine, there is a conflict - thermal cycling is stressful on 
the machine, but heat ages the electronics.  So a failure will occur, but which
will fail faster?
In a computer, power cycling is stressful, but heat dries out the electrolytic
capacitors in the power supply as well as ages bearings in the fans and hard drives.
The fans in a computer pull dust into the machinem which coats parts - especially
heatsinks.  The coating of dust lowers the cooling efficiency of the heatsinks,
thus causing more localized heat to be retained.
If you're not using your computer for 8 or more hours, it's usually best to
shut it down. 
The only computers I leave on 24/7 is my office SGI O2 and my office Linux box.
The same goes for the office espresso machine - 24/7, but then, it's
a commerical expresso machine, and it's gets used at all hours during the
week.
 
<Snip>
I fully agree with this. 
Bob
-

9) From: espresso gin
<Snip>
Must all be luck...
I am sitting in front of 2 Mac's and a windows driven pc, all have been on
for three years or more, external drives included and not one problem from
any.
My older Saeco Magic de Lux has been on for 2 years, off only when I go to
my house in CA and it still makes a great cup!
ginny

10) From: dewardh
Gin:
<Snip>
Donno . . . My experience matches yours.  Hard drives left on run for (many)
years, those cycled off and on fail (usually on startup).  There's more bearing
wear in a few seconds of spin-up than in hundreds of hours of "normal"
operation.  $3 fans do seem to fail after a while . . . $10 fans seem to run
forever.  Put dust filters on your computers and water filters on your espresso
machines . . . .
Deward

11) From: James Gundlach
 Don't think it is luck.  I ran a computer lab and put in 70 Mac LC's in June of 91, we ran them 24/7 until August 97.  Out of all 70 we had two monitors go in year 6 and 13 machine days of down time during the full six years, 8 of which came from the same lightning strike that the surge protection could not quite contain.  But during the week, I turn the SL-90 on at about 4:00 am and turn it off when I leave for work at about 7:30.  During weekends when we use it fairly regularly it is on from about 5:00 am till 9:00 pm when the last coffee of the day is made.  In general I don't think you can generalize from light bulbs to computers or from computers to espresso machines except when the light bulb is in the computer or the computer is in the espresso machine.
Jim Gundlach
P.S.  Did anyone notice my tasting notes on the Sumatra classic lot #4365.  I don't remember them showing up.
On Sunday, May 11, 2003, at 01:59PM, espresso gin  wrote:
<Snip>

12) From: dewardh
Jim:
<Snip>
espresso
machines 
The light bulb filament and the boiler heating element are both =
resistive
heaters . . . (of course the boiler heater is switched on and off =
constantly . .
.. which is probably the only reason they ever fail ).
Deward

13) From: Ed Needham
Words of wisdom to live by.  Generalizations are a by-product of our fast
paced lifestyle, where everything is complicated, and the 'Cliff Notes'
version is almost a necessity to be able to get through the day.
Generalizing information from one situation to another might seem like a good
idea, and might even be necessary, but unless contributing variables are
taken into consideration, the generalization could easily be meaningless at
best, or just flat out wrong.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
****************************************
**********************************************

14) From: Steve Wall
One point I haven't heard discussed is power consumption.  An
espresso machine will hold it's boiler water at about 200F
the entire time it's on (discounting warm-up time), and doing
this 24/7 seems like an extravagant waste of electricity to
me unless it is used pretty regularly.
A computer left on 24/7 won't burn through nearly as much
power.  Mine runs 24/7 but it's designed for low power
consumption.  It's completely fanless and the hard drive
spins down when not in use.  The CRT is always on but switches
to stand-by mode when not in use.

15) From: John Abbott
Slow news day?
On Sun, 2003-05-11 at 23:00, Ed Needham wrote:
    Words of wisdom to live by.  Generalizations are a by-product of our fast
    paced lifestyle, where everything is complicated, and the 'Cliff Notes'
    version is almost a necessity to be able to get through the day.
    Generalizing information from one situation to another might seem like a good
    idea, and might even be necessary, but unless contributing variables are
    taken into consideration, the generalization could easily be meaningless at
    best, or just flat out wrong.
    Ed Needham
    To Absurdity and Beyond!
   http://www.homeroaster.com    ed
    
    ****************************************
    **********************************************

16) From: Ed Needham
Must be.


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