HomeRoast Digest


Topic: freezing greens (24 msgs / 488 lines)
1) From: Oaxaca Charlie
--- John Abbott  wrote:
.
<Snip>
 I'd better reply about freezing greens. I tried that last
summer just to see what would happen. After a month in the deep
freezer some beans I'm very familiar with got roasted the same
way as usual and the result was a more "dull" cup, no question.
.. No bad flavors, just a decrease in acidity and a boring brew.
It seemed to go stale very fast, too. Within 3 days it tasted
like 2 week old coffee. While cleaning that freezer recently I
found the rest of the bag, still vac packed, and tried again,
just in case the first try 6 months ago was a fluke. Same exact
result. So when you write : 
<Snip>
 Do you mean defrosted after being roasted (that doesn't hurt it
much) or did you freeze some greens?        Saludos,
Charlie
=====
Brick Oven Roasting in British Columbia
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2) From: espresso gin
I was told to never, ever freeze greens. A;all of the books I have read say
the very same.
NEVER, ever freeze 'um. The very first beans I ever roasted had been in the
freezer and tasted fine, so what did I know then... 6 months can make a big
difference.
ginny

3) From: John Abbott
Hi Charlie, Welcome back - hope things return to normal quickly.
I have some experimental greens in the freezer now but thus far I have
only frozen roasted beans. I set them out in an open dish for a couple
of hours before grinding them - but I have dumped them directly from the
freezer into the grinder.  I let them thaw a bit thinking its easier on
the burrs (which is probably fuzzy thinking) and that the bean moisture
is more evenly distributed (which is probably fuzzy thinking).
I'm doing the frozen greens purely as a test. I vacuum seal most of my
greens - keep the imminent stock in Sweet Maria cloth bags.
John - still waiting on the post of the new Panama's 
On Fri, 2003-05-16 at 11:03, Oaxaca Charlie wrote:
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4) From: John Abbott
Ginny, I don't know if it makes any difference but I'm vacuum sealing
them first, then freezing.  I'll let you know if I can detect any
degradation of flavor when I get back from the left coast and have a
change to try them
John - who learned long, long ago to never say never
On Fri, 2003-05-16 at 11:24, espresso gin wrote:
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5) From: Rick Farris
John wrote (about roasted beans):
<Snip>
That's what I do.  I try to get them into the freezer while they're
still a little warm.
When I take them out of the freezer I let them come fully up to
temperature in the sealed mason jar before opening.  That way I am sure
of having no condensation problems.  Of course with the average humidity
here in southern Arizona running about 15%, condensation really isn't
that much of a problem.
-- Rick

6) From: Chuck the AV-Geek
I just gotta ask another inane question...
I got into home roasting so I could get the best tasting and freshest coffee I could lay my hands on.  Why are so many of you freezing anything?
I'm only roasting as much as I can drink in a week.  I read that the flavor starts diminishing 4 days after roasting, so I'm doing all I can to minimize that from happening.
The only change from this plan will be for traveling.  This is the one instance I will grind ahead...
-Chuck
Very confused
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7) From: John Abbott
On Fri, 2003-05-16 at 21:57, Chuck the AV-Geek wrote:
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Chuck,
I don't normally freeze my coffee. The green coffee that I'm freezing is
an experiment to see if it effects the flavor when roasted.  I vacuum
seal my roasts that will not be consumed immediately. However, the
reason to roast and seal is that I can have several varieties of beans
available to select from when the time is right. I roast in 1/2 pound
lots and divide them into two storage lots.  I vacuum seal in vac bags
and Kerr/mason jars.  I do freeze the decaf because neither my wife or I
drink it - but I have family and friends that do - so I want it
available for them - and it could sit for weeks.
I never, ever, grind ahead. I have a couple of small grinders that
travel with me. I generally use the Press Pot when I'm traveling and a
whirly blade does the trick.  When I travel, I make up one press pot
sized baggies - a million of them - but measured.
John - confused too but won't admit it :O)

8) From: Ben Treichel
John Abbott wrote:
<Snip>
If you are confused how do you know that you didn't admit it? In fact, 
if you are confused, how do you even know that you are confused? You may 
not be confused, but refuse to admit it. ;-)
<Snip>

9) From: John Abbott
On Fri, 2003-05-16 at 23:04, Ben Treichel wrote:
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Now I have a headache and I'm confused!

10) From: Ben Treichel
John Abbott wrote:
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Well, I do what I can.
FYI, just finished the timber frame design for my new roast haus & 
workshop (12 ft x 16ft) . Its going to be pretty enough; I might even 
move my office out there.
<Snip>

11) From: miKe mcKoffee

12) From: David Westebbe
<Snip>
I freeze in case I run out of freshly roasted.

13) From: mIke mcKoffee
The subject of greens storage is always a reoccurring theme on the List.
I've been a proponent of vacuum storing greens (and roasts) for years.
Recently I've read some stuff on commercial freezing of greens to prolong
quality between crop cycles. Been meaning to try it in a home freezer so
while vac bagging the newly arrived greens vac bagged and just tossed a 1/2#
of Moki's in the freezer. Rather than a long term vac & freeze test thinking
to just start with a shorter freeze duration, defrost & roast 'em for PNWG
IV in June along with another batch of non-frozen Moki's of course. That'll
provide a large base of taste testers. Will decide then if further testing
is warranted.
I've heard all kinds of theories and suppositions on freezing greens, but
don't recall having heard of anyone trying it so what the heck.
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
URL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.

14) From: Stephen Niezgoda
So far everything I have read has talked about commercial deep freezing of
greens at -40F.  Are you planning on putting them in a seperate freezer
chest that will not get opened often or in a kitchen freezer?
On 1/17/06, mIke mcKoffee  wrote:
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G
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g
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15) From: Craig Andrews
Mike mcKoffee wrote:
<Snip>
 > --__--__--
Hmm, Mike., you've never heard of George Howell of Terroir Coffee?? They 
freeze all their green stock @ -40F.. http://www.terroircoffee.com/Cheers!">http://info.terroircoffee.com/content/view/43/25/, http://www.terroircoffee.com/Cheers!
Craig.

16) From: Ed Needham
The expansion of water in the green coffee cells would possibly do damage. 
Of course that's just theory, and maybe there is enough chemistry in the 13% 
+/- moisture to actually keep it from freezing hard.  Seeds are very 
resistant to freezing temperatures in much of nature, and some even require 
freezing to germinate.  Coffee seeds don't require freezing to germinate but 
may be resistant to damage from freezing.  Either way, I'm guessing the 
taste will change due to freezing, but I'm not sure if it would be for 
better or worse.
*********************
Ed Needham
"to absurdity and beyond!"
ed at homeroaster dot com
(include [FRIEND] somewhere in the subject line of any email correspondence)
*********************

17) From: Mike Chester
There is a big difference between commercial flash freezing at -40 and 
freezing in a home freezer at ~0.  The flash freezing process is so fast 
that the moisture does not have time to expand and break the cell walls as 
occurs in slow freezing.  I am not sure if there is enough moisture in green 
coffee for this to be a factor, but you can easily see it when you thaw 
commercially flash frozen meat and vegetables, very little juice is 
released, whereas when you thaw home frozen meat and vegetables, there is a 
relatively large release of juice.  This occurs because the cell walls have 
ruptured in the slow freezing and released the moisture that they contained.
Another Mike

18) From: Rod
I assume you mean "Does not form large crystals" when you say " moisture
does not have time to expand and break the cell walls".  If only Alton =
Brown
were on the list...
And if your Freezer is only at ~0, replace it.  Even a home freezer =
should
be at least -8 if not more. All temperatures in Fahrenheit.
I can't wait to read the cupping logs form miKe's experiment.
Rodney
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fast
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walls as
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thaw
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is
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the
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very
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to
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I'm
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it
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years.
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freezer
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tossed a
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for
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greens,
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19) From: mIke mcKoffee
2nd refrigerator down in garage. Not opened nearly as often. But not
adjusting colder for super cold freeze like commercial.
miKe
	From: homeroast-admin
[mailto:homeroast-admin] On Behalf Of Stephen Niezgoda
	Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 7:35 PM
	
	So far everything I have read has talked about commercial deep
freezing of greens at -40F.  Are you planning on putting them in a seperate
freezer chest that will not get opened often or in a kitchen freezer?
	
	On 1/17/06, mIke mcKoffee  wrote: 
		The subject of greens storage is always a reoccurring theme
on the List.
		I've been a proponent of vacuum storing greens (and roasts)
for years.
		Recently I've read some stuff on commercial freezing of
greens to prolong 
		quality between crop cycles. Been meaning to try it in a
home freezer so
		while vac bagging the newly arrived greens vac bagged and
just tossed a 1/2#
		of Moki's in the freezer. Rather than a long term vac &
freeze test thinking 
		to just start with a shorter freeze duration, defrost &
roast 'em for PNWG
		IV in June along with another batch of non-frozen Moki's of
course. That'll
		provide a large base of taste testers. Will decide then if
further testing 
		is warranted.
		
		I've heard all kinds of theories and suppositions on
freezing greens, but
		don't recall having heard of anyone trying it so what the
heck.

20) From: mIke mcKoffee
<Snip>
<Snip>
I was referring to any home freeze testing;-)
miKe

21) From: mIke mcKoffee
It's precisely the "maybe" & "possiblies" why I went ahead and did it!-)
miKe
<Snip>

22) From: Oaxaca Charlie
--- mIke mcKoffee  wrote:
<Snip>
 I think it was two years ago, maybe three that I tried
that and reported to the list about it. Didn't work for me.
 Terroir claims to cup constantly, it works for them, and
they're the pros. You can get a more exactly consistant
roast than I could when using that brick oven, Mike, so I'm
interested to read your cupping report too.
  Charlie
 
                                         Oaxaca dreamin'
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23) From: Wesley Simon
I thought about sending Alton Brown an email asking him to update his coffe=
e
episode to include home roasting.  You have to give him credit though, he
does talk to a professional roaster during the show.
On 1/17/06, Rod  wrote:
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24) From: miKe mcKoffee
FWIW, took the vac bagged 6 month freezer stored Moki's Kona greens out of
the freezer this morning to defrost and temp equalize with the room temp vac
stored Moki's. Going to roast the 1/2# batches of both tonight so they'll be
peak fully rested for PNWG IV next Saturday.
More will be revealed!
Kona Konnaisseur miKe mcKoffee
Pacific Northwest Gathering IVhttp://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must">http://home.comcast.net/~mdmint/pnwgIV.htmURL to Rosto mods, FrankenFormer, some recipes etc:http://mdmint.home.comcast.net/coffee/Rosto_mod.htmUltimately the quest for Koffee Nirvana is a solitary path. To know I must
first not know. And in knowing know I know not. Each Personal enlightenment
found exploring the many divergent foot steps of Those who have gone before.
<Snip>


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