HomeRoast Digest


Topic: (Fwd) +Re: Hottop Kills the Horse! (16 msgs / 532 lines)
1) From: Jim Schulman
From: "Les & Becky" 
<Snip>
The Hottop runs about 18 minute roasts as opposed 
to the 12 to 15 minutes of most pro drums.
My informal impression during the tests is the 
that the hottop roasts a little "flatter" than pro 
drum roasters, and certainly flatter than air 
roasters. There's things I really liked about it, 
and things I didn't:
I absolutely loved the job it did on very bright 
coffees like Kenyas and CRs. The fruit flavors 
seemed to be preserved intact, unlike airroasts 
slowed down after the first crack, without the 
sourness one gets in shorter airroasts. I also 
thought it produced very tasty "middle fruit" 
notes in the Harrar, although the Finca Dos Marias 
was a bit subdued.
I didn't like the underdeveloped roast flavors one 
bit. I agree with Les that the Harar chocolate got 
mangled.
My two cents: I think the Hottop is just a little 
too much of a good thing, too slow from 280 to the 
first crack by a few minutes, and a minute too 
fast from the first til the end of the roast. A 
reprogrammed chip, or a Variac set above line 
voltage to start, and lower when the first starts 
would produce a profile more to my taste.
Alternatively, if one could let it preheat to 400F 
before putting the beans in, rather than the 300F 
it chimes at, it would work like a pro roaster.
The electronics cycles the heat on a timer, rather 
than being temperature driven. So the variac 
method will work.
Jim

2) From: Rick Farris
Jim says, about the HotTop:
<Snip>
At some line voltage the electronics will drop out.  Do you know if
anyone has done any testing to see how low a line voltage you can go
before you lose the electronics?
Conversely, with my HIP, above about 132VAC, I smell ozone and hear
crackling from inside the unit.  How high a line voltage do you suppose
it will withstand?
Mike, on your FrankenRosto, how high a line voltage do you go?
(Speaking of FrankenRosto, it reminds me of a story.  For a short time I
had a TV/VCR/Home Electronics repair store.  One day a lady called up
and asked if we could repair a Telefunken radio.  I told her "Lady, we
can repair *any* Funkin radio!")
-- Rick

3) From: miKe mcKoffee

4) From: Ed Needham
Has anyone done a dataplot of temps in a Hottop?  I'd love to see how the
temps look over the duration of the roast.  Jim, you gonna PID or variac a
Hottop?
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
****************************************
**********************************************

5) From: Ed Needham
Sounds like it would withstand 130vac or below .
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.com
ed
****************************************
**********************************************

6) From: Jim Schulman
Hi Ed, you wrote:
<Snip>
I still have Paul Sunde's Hottop profiles up in my
Yahoo Briefcase:http://briefcase.yahoo.com/jim_schulmannet
Randy Glass has one up of his too:http://www.quiknet.com/~frcn/Coffee/BeanRoasterFINAL.html
What's unique about the Hottop is that its profile
is actually concave, rising slowly from 300 to
350, then fast from there. My only criticism is it
takes to long to get the beans up to about 300F.
Otherwise it seems, out of the box, by far the
best of the home roasters
<Snip>
Paul uses a variac and TC on his Hottop, but he
controls manually
I'm an airroast guy (lots of little batches of
different coffees is my thing). But I use the very
straight-line drum profiles. 
PID isn't my thing either, I'm a junkie for good
roast measurements and controls, but prefer to
have my own brain sitting between them.
Hey Ed, if you can chart a profile of your roast;
I'd be happy to send you a sample "clone roasted"
to the same profile on my FR. You can see for
yourself how air and drum roasts vary.
Jim

7) From: Ed Needham
Jim...
Any chance you'll be in the Louisville area anytime soon?  Back to back
roasts drum and air, same bean, same time.  Lots of fun.  Cup roasts
immediately.  Then you take some of both home and I keep a sample of each
here and cup again after two or three days.
Another option.
I could send you enough beans to roast so that you can send half back to me.
I'll roast and send a sample to you on the same day.  The samples should
cross in the mail and when we receive them, both of us could do a comparison
and post notes.
How large of a batch do you usually roast?
Here's a description of a typical 5 pound roast.
*************************************
TIME          Temp            Bean temp
START        500F
1:45            410                      (temp stabilizes and turns)
4:00            430                240
5:30            435                260
8:30            450                300
10:30          460                325
12:30          470                350
14:45          485                375
16:30          490                400
17:00          490                410 (1st crack)
18:00          490                420 (reduce heat)
18:30          480                423
19:30          460                423
20:30          460                423
21:00          460                430 (second crack)
21:30          460                435 (pull roast and forced air cool in 3
minutes)
This is fairly similar to what I usually do with a roast.  Smaller batches
have completely different temps and times.  I've got to start cooler and
really stay on top of the heat to keep it from running away with temps.
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!http://www.homeroaster.comed
****************************************
**********************************************

8) From: Jim Schulman
Hi Ed,
Thanks for the profile.
I won't be in Louisville anytime soon; but we should do the 
comparision. I'm visiting my Mother in Miami next week, but I'll be 
back on the 28th. We can do it then.  
Your 5 pound loads take longer to ramp to 300, from there on out, 
it's a lot like my profile (I run about two minutes shorter). It's a profile 
I can easily duplicate.  
In the hottop experiment, my roast was a little flatter tasting than 
Paul's (at least according to Barry), so I'd like to try doing a second 
roast, same profile above 300, but faster to there. I suspect following 
a drum profile early on dehydrates the beans too soon when done in 
an airroaster.  
I roast 5 ounces green at a time, but I can do as many roasts as 
necessary to get a decent sized sample to you. How about I send 
you 1/2 pound (roasted) samples; one with the exact duplicate 
profile, one with a high speed ramp to 300F?  
You'll need to tell me when you see the beans' first color change 
going from green/yellow to tan; that'll give me a low temp point to 
calibrate my sensor to yours (just the first and second crack doesn't 
cover the low range); and I'll need enough beans to do a trial roast 
for the calibration.  
Jim
On 19 Jun 2003 at 0:02, Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>

9) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 10:05 6/18/2003, Jim Schulman typed:
<Snip>
For those who have a Hottop, has anyone tried adding the green beans 
significantly after (1-5 minutes) the preheat timer says to so the beans 
see a faster ambient to 300 time?
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting and Blending by Gestalt

10) From: Phil Jordan
Fascinating idea, will try it this weekend with either a Kenya or Java
Kayumas, and let you know next week
Phil

11) From: Bob Trancho
I believe that I've read of some folks trying this.  The problem is that
the Hottop has a timed profile and adding the beans significantly after
the preheat timer chimes might result in an underdone roast (or running
out of "plus" button pushes).  I'll also give it a try this weekend.
Bob
<Snip>

12) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 04:40 6/20/2003, Bob Trancho typed:
<Snip>
Just thinking ahead, go for a bean/roast that you don't mind only to City 
Roast just in case you can't get it extended to 2nd.
<Snip>
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting and Blending by Gestalt

13) From: John Abbott
You're nervier than I am Bob.  Looking at the effects to the heat curve
when the beans are added I think you will wind up with a hopelessly
under-roasted bitter brew.
John - Lost my map - have no idea where I'm wandering.
On Fri, 2003-06-20 at 06:40, Bob Trancho wrote:
    I believe that I've read of some folks trying this.  The problem is that
    the Hottop has a timed profile and adding the beans significantly after
    the preheat timer chimes might result in an underdone roast (or running
    out of "plus" button pushes).  I'll also give it a try this weekend.
    
    Bob
    
    > 
    > 
    > For those who have a Hottop, has anyone tried adding the 
    > green beans significantly after (1-5 minutes) the preheat 
    > timer says to so the beans see a faster ambient to 300 time?
    >
    

14) From: David Lewis
At 1:10 AM -0500 6/17/03, Jim Schulman wrote:
<Snip>
Alas, it's not that simple. What you say is true, but the thermal 
mass of the roaster is such that varying the voltage when first crack 
starts has no measurable effect on the temperature ramp. You have to 
get air moving through there to slow it down. Currently, when it hits 
the start of first, I yank the chaff tray and the load door, then put 
them back in three minutes later. That works pretty well, but is too 
sensitive to wind. More work to follow.
Best,
	David
-- 
Less than 0.1 percent of the U.S. population gave 83 percent of all 
itemized campaign contributions for the 2002 elections, according to 
the Center for Responsive Politics.

15) From: David Lewis
At 8:34 AM -0700 6/17/03, Rick Farris wrote:
<Snip>
I don't know where it drops out, but I do know that it will take 100 
Volts without going away. On the high end, 128 doesn't seem to faze 
it. The voltage with my variac drops about four Volts when the heater 
goes on.
Best,
	David
-- 
Less than 0.1 percent of the U.S. population gave 83 percent of all 
itemized campaign contributions for the 2002 elections, according to 
the Center for Responsive Politics.

16) From: David Lewis
At 12:22 AM -0400 6/18/03, Ed Needham wrote:
<Snip>
There's a graph on the Sweet Maria's Hottop page. It's a little 
small, but readable. Tom doesn't say what Voltage it was done at, and 
the Hottop is sensitive to Voltage.
Best,
	David
-- 
Less than 0.1 percent of the U.S. population gave 83 percent of all 
itemized campaign contributions for the 2002 elections, according to 
the Center for Responsive Politics.


HomeRoast Digest