HomeRoast Digest


Topic: 32976 messages...& filter types,ISH, and more (14 msgs / 519 lines)
1) From: john roberts
It seems like a lot of the posts to this list would be better served by a
chat room. I find myself deleting the vast majority.
------
To add some content. I have experimented with metal vs. paper filters and
find surprising little difference in taste (extraction?). However I observe
a significant difference in time it takes.
The metal filter allows the brew to drain rather quickly but I suspect the
amount of particulate matter that remains in suspension continues to
extract. A paper filter while more effective at removing the fine grounds,
takes longer to drain so more extraction occurs during the first brew.
My current practice is to use both, first I brew a pot using the metal
filter to get my first cup quicker and as I approach the last cup of the pot
I filter it again through paper to capture the significant amount of
grounds. I don't find any discernable difference between the first and last
cup (other than temperature).
--------
I was one of the ISH virgins who jumped on this recent batch. I have roasted
and consumed two 100G batches in my Gourmet (still working), and found them
good but not "blow my head off" good. This may be as much an indictment of
my blunted tastes, phone it in profiles, flat RO water, etc. For now I am
content to reap great pleasure from much cheaper (relatively) coffee.
---------
My experiments with roasting decaff for my second pot of the day have been
good and worth pursuing. While not as flavorful and the real deal, it is
certainly worth the trouble.
Life is too short to drink bad coffee,
JR

2) From: John Abbott
john roberts wrote:
<Snip>
No policy needed here - I blow my system up about once a week and have 
to rebuild it - so its always fresh and new and empty.  Being a retired 
Pastor and a Retired IT  I don't make backups - I just pray a lot!
<Snip>
Most of my coffee is unfiltered - French Press, La Pavoni Pro, Cona 
Vacuum pot and SM5K - but when I use the Chemes I use paper because they 
don't make that large a metal filter - and I love just grabbing it and 
dumping it in the trash - no wash up.
<Snip>
The list has agreed that coffee is a matter of personal tastes - but  
when roasted correctly, allowed to rest properly and brewed in the Cona 
- you can't touch it! I have  missed very few of Tom's offerings (have 
to admit that I passed on the Disgusta) and many are good - Konas are 
wonderful as are Central Americans - but nothing approaches ISH Napoleon 
Estate beans.  Now, is it $35 a pound good?  Probably, but I'm not going 
to support it at that price.  I can get 7 times as much Central American 
Beans for that amount and I do love Central Americans.
<Snip>
Here is another coffee that I find best suited for the Cona or the 
Chemex.  Most decafs just have more flavor brewed this way for my tastes.
<Snip>
Life is eternal - our time in coffee accessible life is too short to 
drink bad coffee.   But life is GOOD in the slow lane!!
John - really LOVING this last crop of Miel.  Way to go Tom!

3) From: peter zulkowski
Hi John,
Thanks for the info on refiltering the coffee with a paper filter. This 
makes a lot of sense to me.
Currently we still use a Melita Grind n Brew with that nylon filter 
built in to the whirly blade basket. (Says something about  how new to 
this I am.)
This makes great coffee, but it gets 'old' and I suspect if I ran it 
through a paper filter after a few minutes it would last through a 
second cup.
I still have not roasted any of my ISH.
Having just recently started on my 6th pound of home roasting for my 
whole life (where have I been?) I am finally starting to get coffee that 
is a bit consistent.
Hmmmm.. well not really.. let me explain a bit.  I tried lots of 
different amounts of coffee beans and lots of different times with my 
Poppery II and could not get anything consistent, although my wife loved 
all of it and so did I. It was just so different all the time, same 
coffee mind you.
So, the last few times I roasted, (ME! Roasting Coffee!) after having 
shorted out the thermostat, I did several small batches  of about 60 GR. 
each.
My scale reads in grams, and this is about what a half a cup weighs.
I roast each small batch a little differently, mostly because it takes 
more time to get the first batch up to 450F than it does the succeeding 
ones, but also I take each roast more or less into the second crack. Now 
all these roasts are not the same, but the resultant batch (mixture) is 
pretty good.
Each half pound or so I do like this is pretty much like the last :)
Kinda tedious, but fun.
Yesterday I roasted my first batch (two 66 Gr. roasts in succession) of 
decaf I got from Tom, and it was more than pretty good.
C wanted to take it to dinner at some friends, so we showed up with our 
DeLonghi grinder (hey, I am still new here), ground the beans, and ran 
it through their BUNN. 
Much better than anyone expected.
It was Ethiopian Harrar WP.
I just went by the rating on Sweetmarias site, and it was the highest, 
but not by much.
C said she could even taste the chocolate overtones! This comment from 
the same woman who thought my 17 minute roast of a half cup of beans in 
my Popcorn Pumper was just wonderful. She loves dark roast. Now she is 
getting flavored dark roast :) (Not burnt beyond recognition)
Still amazed that my roasting is getting better and better
PeterZ
john roberts wrote:
<Snip>

4) From: Peter Barnes
john roberts wrote:
<Snip>
Personally, I find this VERY surprising.  I'd be curious to hear what 
specific brewing method you are talking about - pour-over or drip.  I'd 
also be curious to know what "metal" filter you've been using.  In my 
experience with the SwissGold filters, the coffee took LONGER to extract 
and came out tasting much richer.  Paper filters, on the other hand, 
were the exact opposite.  Quicker extraction, less taste, same grind for 
both methods, both drip and pour-over.
I suspect that grind has as much to do with this filter effect as 
anything.  If the "metal" filter drains quicker, make the grind finer 
and see if that helps.  Or, if you aren't using a swissgold, you might 
try one of those.  The perforation is very fine, and that might be 
what's missing as well.
Finally, I'm really unclear from your description why you are double 
extracting.  What does the metal/paper combo give you that a double 
paper extraction wouldn't?  I can see why you wouldn't extract 
metal/metal twice, but not the other.  On top of that, I'm unclear why 
double extraction is a good thing.  I would think in an ideal world, you 
would just try to find an ideal single extraction - at the very least, 
less time, right?
cheers
peter

5) From: Ed Needham
I have a chat room set up on Dalnet called alt.coffee, but it is only
sporadically used.  Anyone is welcome.  I check in pretty much every night
for at least a little while.  Come in, go do something else until someone
else arrives, and enjoy!
***********************************************
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!
homeroaster ... d.o.t ... com
***********************************************

6) From: john roberts
john roberts wrote:
<Snip>
pot
<Snip>
Personally, I find this VERY surprising.  I'd be curious to hear what
specific brewing method you are talking about - pour-over or drip.  I'd
also be curious to know what "metal" filter you've been using.  In my
experience with the SwissGold filters, the coffee took LONGER to extract
and came out tasting much richer.  Paper filters, on the other hand,
were the exact opposite.  Quicker extraction, less taste, same grind for
both methods, both drip and pour-over.
I suspect that grind has as much to do with this filter effect as
anything.  If the "metal" filter drains quicker, make the grind finer
and see if that helps.  Or, if you aren't using a swissgold, you might
try one of those.  The perforation is very fine, and that might be
what's missing as well.
Finally, I'm really unclear from your description why you are double
extracting.  What does the metal/paper combo give you that a double
paper extraction wouldn't?  I can see why you wouldn't extract
metal/metal twice, but not the other.  On top of that, I'm unclear why
double extraction is a good thing.  I would think in an ideal world, you
would just try to find an ideal single extraction - at the very least,
less time, right?
cheers
peter
=========
OK more data... when I retired my BUNN due to too much temp variation
between first and later brews (it was very old). I bought a kitchen aid and
it made hot water but the coffee sucked, so I took the old brew basket from
the bunn and poured the hot water from the KA using a swissgold filter.
Perhaps dust from my cheap grinder (capresso set on 5) was clogging the
paper filters and slowing down the flow. The coffee flows much faster
through the swissgold and first thing in the morning I don't really feel
like having to make multiple pours and waiting and waiting and waiting.
With the metal filter I can complete the whole pot in two pours. I refilter
later mainly to remove sediment so I can enjoy the dregs.
I did a few comparisons between paper and metal and found no difference in
taste, which was not my expectation, but as I speculated the sediment that
passes through the metal filter may compensate for the shorter extraction
time...
Perhaps I need to explore a coarser grind setting, but I'm much happier with
the consistency of my current brews compared to the (tired) BUNN.
JR
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7) From: Ed Needham
I have not been impressed with the last batch of ISH.  It was nasty roasted
dark (too dark, I had to use my HWP since the beans were small enough to fall
through my drum holes), and tangy roasted light.  Maybe the next roast (in
the middle) will knock my socks off, but I doubt it.  A really good bean will
have more latitude than that for a roast.
It's definitely not better than the Peru I recently discovered and ordered a
bunch of from SM at a much more realistic price.
***********************************************
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!
homeroaster ... d.o.t ... com
***********************************************

8) From: joshm
Ed, How did you do the HWP roast? Do you roast straight through or do you
hit the cool button during the roast.
I am lucky to have some ISH on the way (as one person's good deeds have
produced more good deeds)..Since I will be using an HWP i would save some fo
the trial and error.
best, myron

9) From: rnkyle
john roberts wrote:
<Snip>
I like you Ed I found that the Swiss gold extraction is longer then through
a paper filter. The taste in the paper is flatter and weaker, then in the
swill gold. I always use the Swiss gold over paper.
Ron Kyle
rnkyle
Roasting Drums for gas grillshttp://rnk10.tripod.com

10) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 09:34 11/24/2003, john roberts typed:
<Snip>
That is rather what I like about the list.
<Snip>
Very odd.  I find my SG filter takes significantly more time to filter, to 
the point of clogging sometimes.
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting and Blending by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/

11) From: AlChemist John
Sometime around 18:52 11/24/2003, Peter Barnes typed:
<Snip>
I am seeing the same thing.  Do you (or anyone else) make your grind 
courser for the SG filters?
--
John Nanci 
AlChemist at large
Zen Roasting and Blending by Gestalthttp://www.dreamsandbones.net/blog/

12) From: Ed Needham
I've never done the 'cool button' thing with my HWP.  It usually gives me
roasts that are good without any intervention.  Each HWP seems to roast
differently though.  I've gone through three that I had to send back for
replacement.  I currently have two.  Each has been different.  Not a good
sign for their quality control department.
The first roast got away from me, and the roaster went nutzo and would not
kick into high fan at cooling.  The heat was off, but the low fan speed
continued well into the cooling period.  It's happened before.  I watched as
the beans got darker and darker.  I had originally intended to stop them when
they were right at the point of hitting second crack, but second got going
pretty good on that roast.
The next roast, I purposefully stopped before second.  The HWP did fine this
time.  It was not a light roast, and was very interesting in the cup, with
lots of complexity, but the first sips were not pleasant and it was not very
good as it cooled.  Tangy, like it needed a bit more roast.  In between, I
enjoyed it, but not as much as other coffees.  Definitely not as much as
Tom's last batch of ISH.
I'll try again, and this time I'll nail the roast.  If it is still quirky,
then I'll chalk it up to a lower quality bean (respectively).  If this coffee
was $4 or $5 a pound, I would not be typing this post, but at $33.10 plus
shipping, per pound, it oughta knock my socks off.
***********************************************
Ed Needham
To Absurdity and Beyond!
homeroaster ... d.o.t ... com
***********************************************

13) From: Peter R. Barnes
When I first starting using the swiss gold, i figured out right away i needed a coarser grind - the basket overflowed in my drip machine, and the one cupper took ten minutes to brew.  now i grind for swiss gold about 1/3 between drip and french press, or 1/4 turn on my zass from the drip setting I have set.

14) From: rnkyle
I grind my the same as I do for drip. On my Zass I turn the adjusting nut
one full turn back from lock.
Ron


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